Fire safety sticks

[dankilb]

Yes... and at the same time no, only so-so.

• Dry chemical was much, much faster. The fire was out before the firefighter was even in the camera frame!
• Notice how the flames actually spread first in the class F fire at the end. That is characteristic of water mist. In a bilge space, it may well have just moved it around.
• These are simple, exposed fires. What of the actual cases, where the fire is hidden behind the engine?
• I've done this test with a pyrotech extingusiher. It was more like the dry chemical in terms of speed, with a lot of smoke but little residue.

One down side of a pyrotechnic type is that you only have one go; the fire needs to be out within the burn time. There are pyrotechnic units with much longer burn time.

Maus. Look at 1:09, same standard petrol test

And look at the tiny size of the Maus, perhaps 10-20x less than the size water mist extinguisher we are comparing it to. It is batting way out of its weight class in this comparison.

Not sayin' I'm a Maus fan, or that I would sail with just a Maus (I would not), just trying to present something the group seems less aware of. The technology is just gaining traction, so the benefits, weaknesses, and best uses are still up in the air.

I agree that the Maus does look impressive in the test (and should be better engineered/supported than the cheaper, unbranded, alternatives). Certainly packs a punch for its size. Less so for the price (about £80 in the UK, it seems), but you can't have it all...!

For comparison, our new 'main' extinguisher with the aforementioned 'FIA' motorsport-spec foam that doesn't freeze down to -20°C is the same sort of price - but that is in shiny stainless!
2.4 Litre AFFF Hand Held Fire Extinguisher – Motorsport Fire Extinguishers

 

[Stemar]

I hate to say this and accept its sometimes out of our hands

But the best extinguisher is fire prevention and good housekeeping.

PW

And, maybe, a mix of systems. It's unlikely that any one system - whatever it is - will be optimal on all fires. Maybe water mist for most things, and a good-sized powder job in case a fuel fire is too big for the water mist to cope. If the WM works, great, If it doesn't, powder everywhere, even damaging the engine is no longer a concern.

 

[Adios]

Fire sticks?! On our offshore cruiser, where we potentially need to fight a fire and continue on our way... no thanks!

I don't get what you mean there? They seem best for not damaging anything

 

[Adios]

And look at the tiny size of the Maus, perhaps 10-20x less than the size water mist extinguisher we are comparing it to. It is batting way out of its weight class in this comparison.

That seems a huge advantage. Small enough to keep in a cockpit locker to grab and go to the fire and not effected by the freezing so can leave it there.

 

[dankilb]

I don't get what you mean there? They seem best for not damaging anything

Ones like ‘Maus’, maybe... As I said above, the video demo looks impressive. But still a lot of discharge and that’s apparent even in an open space (where are you supposed to point it when the fire is out, if down below?).

But videos of the cheaper (chandlery variety) models shared in the previous thread on this looked much more like setting off a pyro next to the fire in terms of discharge (and what looked like flame shooting out!): Help specifying fire extinguishers (powder vs. foam/CO2/water mist)

For us the ‘cruising’ advantages of other methods would inc. cooling, visibility, and that the extinguisher can be used again (say, if it re-ignites).

But I’ll row back on implying I wouldn’t have one on board at all. The more methods, the better!

 

[Adios]

Ones like ‘Maus’, maybe... As I said above, the video demo looks impressive. But still a lot of discharge and that’s apparent even in an open space (where are you supposed to point it when the fire is out, if down below?).

But videos of the cheaper (chandlery variety) models shared in the previous thread on this looked much more like setting off a pyro next to the fire in terms of discharge (and what looked like flame shooting out!): Help specifying fire extinguishers (powder vs. foam/CO2/water mist)

For us the ‘cruising’ advantages of other methods would inc. cooling, visibility, and that the extinguisher can be used again (say, if it re-ignites).

But I’ll row back on implying I wouldn’t have one on board at all. The more methods, the better!

It looked like he was using it too close in that example, seemed like it was trying to reignite it until he moved it back. I can imagine it would be good for an engine compartment fire, bit like those halon ones that fell out of favour, lift the hatch and point it in. Could do with some more real life type tests though to see how practical that is. This looks good MAUS Xtin 'Klein' NOZZLE - Maus UK "insert it into the Fire Port of the boat" Hmmm is that fancy term for a hole in the steps? Seems like it but they could have invested a bit more making an example

 

[Adios]

I emailed Maus for clarification of a couple of things today, so I case useful for anyone else here's their reply:

Thank you for your interest in the Klein extinguisher.

The manufacturer was only wiling to guarantee until the 5th year. They will have a guarantee of 6 years from February 2021. This will include registering the product with them which they are presently reviewing.

The Klein is not waterproof. It should be stored inside out of the sun. There is a new product called the halter which is a cabinet/holder for the Klein. This is not waterproof but can withstand water sprays and splashes. The lower operating temperature is -20C.

We can source fire ports if required.

Please feel free to email or call to discuss.

Kind regards

Brian McMahon
Maus-UK
07944561149
www.maus-uk.co.uk

 

[LittleSister]

Dry powder is also not a good idea in the vicinity of a running engine - the engine will ingest the powder, doing it no good at all. There have been reports of engines being seriously damaged by dry powder extinguisher.

. . . And there are many circumstances where stopping the engine might not be a good idea; there are plenty of waters where not having steerage way could result in disaster, too.

On my previous boat I fitted an automatic powder extinguisher specifically designed for engine compartments. It includes a switch triggered on firing, to (a) stop the engine; and (b) light a warning light to show it has operated (for e.g. if the engine hadn't been running you might otherwise be unaware there'd been a fire).

I know that doesn't answer all your concerns, but of the kit and prices available at the time it seemed the best compromise for me. I couldn't afford some of the 'better' solutions, and wouldn't have been comfortable with some of the cheaper ones.

 

[dankilb]

I emailed Maus for clarification of a couple of things today, so I case useful for anyone else here's their reply:

Thanks for sharing. The more I read, the more impressed I am with Maus specifically - always good to see a company with a local contact that can offer competent support/info.

I can see many uses aboard - although, for me, it’d have to be when the prices come down a bit!

I couldn't afford some of the 'better' solutions, and wouldn't have been comfortable with some of the cheaper ones.

My pals at PD motorsport do AFFF engine bay systems, currently manual and electronic, but apparently he’s working on a full-auto version. No powder involved so safer if the engine is running or it’s triggered by accident. The AFFF is plumbed via nozzles that can be directed towards particular areas - exhaust, wiring, fuel lines, etc. (I don’t really have any association, needless to say - but they’re a UK manufacturer and the boss seems interested in boats!)

 

[JumbleDuck]

My pals at PD motorsport do AFFF engine bay systems, currently manual and electronic, but apparently he’s working on a full-auto version. No powder involved so safer if the engine is running or it’s triggered by accident. The AFFF is plumbed via nozzles that can be directed towards particular areas - exhaust, wiring, fuel lines, etc. (I don’t really have any association, needless to say - but they’re a UK manufacturer and the boss seems interested in boats!)

I'm planning to fit a Firetrace system to the DS in due course. It's a hose run round the engine bay with a cylinder at one end. If it gets hot enough to melt a hole in the hose, foam comes out and deals with whatever did the heating up. A pressure switch cuts the ignition when it goes off.

 

[peter gibbs]

I hate to say this and accept its sometimes out of our hands

But the best extinguisher is fire prevention and good housekeeping.

PW

How true. I keep my small petrol container for the O/B right up front in the chain locker in a water tight bag. Won't have petrol anywhere near engine compartment or master cabin at the rear.

I try not to think of the 200 litres of diesel under my bunk but take comfort in the high ignition point. How will we all fare when boats are forced to go hydrogen?Think I will have retired by then but the image of Hindenburg floats on by.....

PWG

 

[dankilb]

I'm planning to fit a Firetrace system to the DS in due course. It's a hose run round the engine bay with a cylinder at one end. If it gets hot enough to melt a hole in the hose, foam comes out and deals with whatever did the heating up. A pressure switch cuts the ignition when it goes off.

Yes, forgot about Firetrace. The system came up in the previous thread and its another one where the video demos look good. It's great that so much new (to me, at least...!) innovation seems to be going on in the sector.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I try not to think of the 200 litres of diesel under my bunk but take comfort in the high ignition point. How will we all fare when boats are

Remember that 62 out of 97 people on the Hindenburg survived. Of those who died, 22 were crew members who were mostly inside the hull in preparation for docking. Of course it looks horrible, but it was a fairly slow burn upwards rather than an explosion.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Remember that 62 out of 97 people on the Hindenburg survived. Of those who died, 22 were crew members who were mostly inside the hull in preparation for docking. Of course it looks horrible, but it was a fairly slow burn upwards rather than an explosion.

Yes - and the famous quote "Oh, the humanity!" didn't refer to people in the airship - the commentator could see a group of people on the ground who were in apparent (but not actual) danger.

The R101, however, was a different kettle of fish - but what do you expect when the airworthiness certificate was issued on the basis of political necessity rather than technical merit?

 

[JumbleDuck]

The R101, however, was a different kettle of fish - but what do you expect when the airworthiness certificate was issued on the basis of political necessity rather than technical merit?

My crew has just read Nevil Shute's autobiography, "Slide Rule", which I must go through again myself. He is pretty scathing in it about the R101 - he was Barnes-Wallis's chief stress calculator for the R100 and knew many of the people involved in the R101, including many who died.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

My crew has just read Nevil Shute's autobiography, "Slide Rule", which I must go through again myself. He is pretty scathing in it about the R101 - he was Barnes-Wallis's chief stress calculator for the R100 and knew many of the people involved in the R101, including many who died.

Yes; I've got that book on my shelf, too. It is worth knowing that Neville Shute Norway backed off his more extreme criticisms of the R101 team later in life; "Slide Rule" is a biased account of the history of the R100 and R101! His political views do rather come to the fore at times.