Fire precautions

[Guest]

What would be the ideal number of extingushers , and of what sort on a 25ft.

So far I have a fire blanket and that's all

Cooking is on 2 hob gas, Electrics (lights and instruments) may fit shore power, 15 Gal pertrol tank in locker in cockpit

Tim Eades
http://www.btinternet.com/~tim.eades/

 

[ccscott49]

1x2.5 kg dry powder in each compartment, Fire blanket you have, 1x2.5 dry powder near engine/fuel tank Thats total of 3x2.5 kg dry powder. Should be plenty.
I'm sure there will be other ideas, but I would be happy with that. You say petrol, is she an outboard powered boat? if inboard, Make sure you have an access hole to point the extinguisher into the engine compartment.

 

[Miker]

Interesting you say 2.5k fire extinguishers. I've settled for 3 X 1 kg. Would you think them too small? One of mine is an automatic in the engine compartment.

 

[ccscott49]

I do, I have to qualify ever year on a firefighting course for the oilfield, the dry powder are very efficient, in the hands of trained personnel, when I see new trainees using BIG extinguishers they still seem to have trouble putting the fires out that professionals have out in a couple of second squirts. I would like to have a bit of powder and time on my side! Bigger extinguisher=more time to fight fire. They are also not much more expensive.

 

[Col]

I would beg to differ re:dry powder in engine compartment. I would only use as last resort ( v. messy )
I have CO2 ( auto ) in engine compartment,
I also have large foam, CO2 and dry powder manual extinguishers.
( just in case )

 

[Miker]

Where is the best and cheapest place to get powder and CO2 fire extinguishers?

 

[Guest]

You can't get them very easily now since they're banned under the Montreal Prtocol 'cos they cause ozone damage, but by far the best and least messy are Halon extinguishers.

I "confiscated" three from my office earlier this year when we had our H&S inspection and the company servicing our extinguishers said that the Halon one's had to be taken away and disposed of and they would charge us something like £100 to do so. So I've now got two on the boat and one at home, 2.5Kg each.

Might be worth looking round your offices and noting if any Halon extinguishers exist, then keep a look out for your next inspection and liberate them if they're being changed.

I later phoned the company that serviced ours and tried to buy some more. They said they weren't allowed to sell them but as long as I paid cash, could probably help but wanted £125 each. And that was for something they were going to charge me £100 to take away and dispose of. Good business eh.

 

[Col]

Don't buy from chandlers ( marine prices apply )
Got mine from motor sport shop, try Autocross at Bracknell ( Berks )

 

[charles_reed]

Extinguishers

I've got 2 x 1kg and 2 x 2.5kg (mainly because the smaller ones can be more conveniently situated in the spaces available).

You do need to check-wegh them every year tho'.

Thank goodness I've never had to use them, but reckon a practical course would be a godsend.

 

[ccscott49]

CO2, is s fine extinguishant, but you need it to be in a fairly sealed compartment for it to work effectively. The engine must be stopped first, as it will suck all the CO2 out of there before the engine stops. I know dry pwder is messy, but if you see how good the stuff is, then it doesnt really matter. I wouldn't be thinking about the clean up, when the engine is on fire! It washes off easily afterwards anyway! You want to see the mess AFFF makes! Halon, is the finest stuff going, but is illegal now. I do have 4 Halon (BCF) extingiushers on board, but thought the chap needed to buy them now, Halon is no longer available. Dont forget to mount the extinguishers sideways, and shake them every six months or so to ensure the powder does not solidify. If you can find an engine room automatic halon at a boat jumble, as long as its pressure is OK, buy it!

 

[oldharry]

Re: Halon extinguishers

Halon is banned because a) it is a potent ozone layer destructor, and b) although it is one of the best extinguishers, it also extinguishes the people using it - when heated it produces a highly toxic gas which will knock you out almost as quick as it does the fire!

Not a desireable state of affairs in the confines of a boat!

I personally avoid powder extinguishers: you will know why when you have to clear up the mess they make. Also you have to actually get the powder to the source of the fire - often impossible on a boat.

The 'Fire equation' - Oxygen + Fuel + Heat = Fire, requires that one part of the equation has to be removed to extinguish the fire. Squirting powder at the flames does nothing; the extinguishant has to reach the source of the fire in sufficient quantity to remove either the oxygen or the heat from the burning material.

Gas or Halon extinguishers are very good at excluding oxygen. However as anyone who has discharged a CO2 extinguisher will know, the blast of gas can actually blow the burning material all over the place and create a far worse situation.

One of the best extinguishers for a boat is a fire blanket, as it will contain the fire by stopping the flames leaping up and setting fire to other things, while smothering it by reducing the oxygen supply. Fires start small, but grow with terrifying speed, so those first few seconds are crucial. Once the flames occupy much more than around half a cubic metre area, you have almost certainly lost control unless you have plenty of extinguishers - so go for the largest you can accomodate on the boat.

One of the few things certain at sea; there will not be 9 tons of highly equipped Fire engine, complete with professionally trained crew racing to the rescue within minutes as there would be ashore.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Halon extinguishers

Your fire equation isnt quite right, it should also contain "catalyst", the powder does not exclude oxygen or cool the fire, that is not its purpose, it has a chemical effect on the fire thereby extiguishing it, as does halon. I agree a fire blanket is a very good system, but I wouldnt rely on it completely, have you actually used any of these extinguishers? You should see what they can do, its amazing! I would reccomend to anybody a 1/2 day or one day course in fire firefighting, fun aswell!

 

[gus]

Don't forget that you always have the unmentioned option of a bucket of water - and that's not in short supply.

 

[jfkal]

A private hole in ozone layer shall develop over your boat and stay there. Bad enough that you hold on to the Halone stuff, but suggesting it to others to do the same is even worse. This is not a sensible thing to do.

 

[brianrunyard]

My boat has an inboard petrol engine, 16 gallon tank in separate locker in cockpit, and 2 hob gas cooker.
My insurers insisted on the following:-
1 Kg auto extinguisher in engine space.
1 Kg auto extinguisher in locker containing petrol tank
1 Kg Dry powder close to cooker, that can be reached from cockpit
Fire blanket close to cooker.

 

[brianrunyard]

Agreed dry powder can be very messy, but so is a fire, I know which I'd rather clean up.
I have a Halon with access hole in engine compartment, but insurers still insisted on a 1 Kg automatic in the engine bay.

 

[Scubadoo]

Totally agree with you if you can get it use Halon, I have halon for the engine bay and 2xpowders for the cabin + fire blanket.

I keep 2 halons at home one in the house and one in the garage.

RM.

 

[oldharry]

Re: Fire equation

Fire equation quoted is as taught by the fire brigade in all their training courses - and they should know! You may be right about some powders having a chemical effect - though I never heard of that before.

But back to the equation. If you have any material that will burn (and it is amazing what will), and oxygen which is in the air we breath, you only have to heat the material for it to catch fire. At a certain point it will start giving off flammable vapours, and as the heat increases the vapour will reach flash point and auto-ignite without a pre-existing source of flame. This is how electrical fires start, for example. Once the insulation or any flammabale material adjacent is heated beyond flash point, fire is inevitable. The dangerous 'flashover' situation which has killed so many fire fighters over the years occurs quite simply when a window or door breaks or is burnt through, allowing a fresh supply of oxygen to a fire previously starved of it. Which is why you NEVER try to open the door in to a room containing a fire - a fresh supply of oxygen will cause a violent explosion. The same applies to your engine compartment or whatever in the boat. Open it to see if the fire is out, and you will blow yourself up if the fire is still alight and simply starved of oxygen.

Extinguishing a fire requires that one of the three elements is removed - and a dry powder with a fire retardent chemical would remove or insulate the fuel from the heat and oxygen elements, either directly or by modifying its chemical structure and flammability.

And yes - frequent regular fire training is manadatory in my job, and includes operating most standard extinguishers types!