Fire Extinguisher for Diesel?

  • Thread starter Thread starter DavidTav
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Well as a Fire Service bod.(retired)

re fire extinguisher for diesel, most of the comments above are sort of right, Diesel does not ignite like petrol but it will burn and it burns hot very quickly, The issue is not whether it will or wont catch fire it is what you are going to do with if it does.

Yes a burst diesel pipe will/could produce a spray a fine spray and this is lethal but no spark will ignite it, you can spray diesel on a cigerette and it will put it out, but the guy who mentioned wiring has a point a fire that has got going by spraying diesel on that will make it worse, so there is a possibility of a fire.

However lets move on to your second discussion if it is on fire what do you use, what we teach when in a fire situation? stay low its the coolest place, so whats the first thing we boaters would do if we saw smoke coming from the engine bay? open the engine hatch, well done, a great place for a back draught, and you are now at the hottest part of the fire the top, now can you hold your breath? no, can you use a fire extinguisher? no, you will thrown back and allow fumes and fire on to your boat.

So in answer an automatic system is always best, foam that will expand and cover any fire or co2 that removes air will all be good.

hope that helps.

Phill
 
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If you read the small print of the GJW policy, you have to fit an automatic fire extinguisher in the engine compartment. Goodness knows what happens if it won't fit; or the residiual heat of the engine reaches above 75 C after you switch it off! Presumably in the first case they won't pay out and in the second they will!
 
I fitted 2x FM200 automatic extinguishers to the engine bay a couple of years ago, replacing the out of date, illegal (and one empty) halon extinguishers.

Already fitted were two stainless steel pull wires through the bulkhead in the lazarette, one to each fuel tank shut off valve. Very simply, the previous owner had attached the wire to the lever of the ball valve so that when pulled it closed the valve. One one of them he fitted a small pulley wheel on the forward engine bulkhead to overcome handing issues (i.e. the lever needed to be pulled forwards from behind, in the lazarette).

I agree that the BES solenoid valves in the link above look a good low cost automatic option; I would have some reservations about solenoid reliability, as I wouldn't want to introduce any additional components that could cause the engine(s) to conk out unexpectedly and possibly make fault finding harder, though it could of course be a life saver.

Overall I'm happy with my manual fuel shut-off option for now.
 
Kurrawong_Kid said:
If you read the small print of the GJW policy, you have to fit an automatic fire extinguisher in the engine compartment. Goodness knows what happens if it won't fit; or the residiual heat of the engine reaches above 75 C after you switch it off! Presumably in the first case they won't pay out and in the second they will!
Click to expand...

I have a GJW policy. I had to declare what fire extinguishers I carried, and did so. Since they have taken my money on that basis, I think they would find it hard to wriggle out of paying.

Mind you, I'm planning to fit an automatic extinguisher, just in case it turns out that diesel burns after all.
 
vyv_cox said:
As an ex-fire warden for many years, I dispute your second point. The gas produced is toxic, but certainly not as much as you say. Advice given to us by the fire service was always that the product of Halon extinguishers was less toxic than the smoke from the fire, particularly when modern furnishings, cables, other plastics, were being burnt.

On the first point, halon's CFC properties are modified when it hits the fire, so the truth is that it was training with halons that probably was the bigger contributor to ozone layer depletion. Although compared with breaking up old refrigerators it was almost negligible. Yet another knee-jerk reaction as regards global warming - removing the best fire extinguisher available for misguided reasons.
Click to expand...

I happily bow to greater knowledge in these matters, having simply passed on what our own fire inspectors - also ex firecrew - have dinned in to us on our annual fire training sessions. And I entirely agree about the knee jerk reaction in banning it. How many halon extinguishers were actually triggered in earnest? I suspect it was more likely the haphazard disposal of old unused units that was causing problems - if any!
 
Halons

The other big user of halons was false alarms. An offshore platform had a false alarm and 2 tonnes of CFC was released. That oil company put all fire extinguishant systems to manual operation only (permanently manned control room) and cut their CFC useage by 90% overnight. I used to inspect and authorise these systems offshore under the old SI 611 Regulations

CFC's were not banned because of global warming, they were banned because they were accumulating in the upper atmosphere and causing depletion of the ozone layer. Since the ban the ozone hole has stopped expanding and seems to be shrinking. The life of these chemicals in the atmosphere is very long so it will take several more years before the shrinkage will be confirmed (or not).

There is good evidence that fine sprays of high flash materials such as diesel will ignite at much lower temperatures. This was one of the causes of the fire in the Paddington Rail crash. There was a paper on this at the recent I.Chem.E Hazards conference at Manchester.
 
Aqueous Foam

The relativly new aqueous foam extingusihers appear to be inexpensive, have low toxicity and may be good for engine fires.
 
Footsoldier...

"I had thought that such things would be complicated/costly, but I have just googled and there are loads."

Me too, which is why I'm wondering why they are'nt routinely used on boats. My manual shut off is right next to the tank, away from the engine, but I'm thinking of putting a heat sensitive one just inside the engine compartment, before the ( not metal bowled as it would have to be under inland waterways regs for narrowboats ) primary filter. I think the valves are compulsory for oil fired heating installations in buildings, and I suppose that that, and the fact that it's plumbers merchants not chandlers who sell them, is why they're so readily available and cheap.
 
elton said:
Diesel has a high flash point (>60C), so it's not a fire risk. You don't need the extinguisher.
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it doesent mater about the flashpoint, its an engine bay and has many things in it that burn.

dont be stupid and spend the money on an extinguisher

id sooner fork out £100 for that than a new boat, wouldent you??
 
tel1 said:
it doesent mater about the flashpoint, its an engine bay and has many things in it that burn.

dont be stupid and spend the money on an extinguisher

id sooner fork out £100 for that than a new boat, wouldent you??
Click to expand...

Well put that man.
 
Regarding a shut off for diesel engines. We used to supply and fit such a system to prevent the theft of JCBs and similar. A simple 12 volt shut off valve in line with the fuel supply is activated with the power from the ignition system, and automatically shuts off by spring action when 12 volts is removed. So you can either wire it by the ignition circuit, or use a separate switch, which will also act as an anti-theft device, as long as it is not obvious. The problem with latter is when the boat catches fire with a person who does not know about the cut off.
If the engine compartment is enclosed, what is the problem with using an automatic CO2 extinguisher?The orignal post concluded that the volume was 1 cubic metre...... not a lot of air to replace with CO2
 
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