Finding Sanctuary: Planning Marine Conservation Zones in the south-west

[toad_oftoadhall]

they have set up a structure that deliberately excludes the actual users of the water from the descision making process.

Remind me, how many yachtsmen have approached them and been turned away?

 

[KristiferColumbus]

Remind me, how many yachtsmen have approached them and been turned away?

How many "yachtsmen" are actually aware of the situation as it effects us?
Most of us would no doubt agree to marine conservation but how many of us have had the slighted inkling that that could involve an anchoring ban?

 

[longjohnsilver]

I certainly get the impression that like our Sea Horse chums they have already made their minds up.

What makes you think that way? Have you been in contact or in communication with them, presumably you must have been to arrive at that conclusion.

 

[maxi77]

Remind me, how many yachtsmen have approached them and been turned away?

More importantly how many actual water users did they approach to be on their committees. Try looking at each of the areas, where they publish the composition of their committee the model is the same, no water users. Lets not be parochial, this is not just a yottie problem, there are those who swim of the beach, those who fish of the shore, or from boats both commercial and recreational, rowers canoeists etc etc etc. Not one so far on a committee, yet these are all the groups who will have either their livelyhood or their leisure curtailed.

 

[maxi77]

What makes you think that way? Have you been in contact or in communication with them, presumably you must have been to arrive at that conclusion.

No I have not been in contact, outside my area of interest (here our local yacht clubs association has a long histroy of invlvement with such groups) but we see organisations which are well established with committees and a shed load of staff coming out to public consultation. Now one would suspect if normal quango practice is observed they have already drawn up their plan and the 'consultation' is a going through the motions excercise before their plan is implemented.

I would love to be wrong, I really would but we have seen it too often, I can see this lot making Studland Seahorses and Eel Grass into a minor problem.

 

[Finding Sanctuary]

More importantly how many actual water users did they approach to be on their committees. Try looking at each of the areas, where they publish the composition of their committee the model is the same, no water users. Lets not be parochial, this is not just a yottie problem, there are those who swim of the beach, those who fish of the shore, or from boats both commercial and recreational, rowers canoeists etc etc etc. Not one so far on a committee, yet these are all the groups who will have either their livelyhood or their leisure curtailed.

"What more should they be doing?"
How about addressing sea zones rather than counties? How about drop in days at weekends? How about recruiting people from the sailing, angling, diving, fishing and shipping communities onto their boards and panels? How about consulting with clubs and associations?

With regards to your concerns about "actual water users" on our committee, I would like to point your attention to posts #46 and #47 in this thread. Water users, also called stakeholders, from a huge range of sectors make up our decision-making Steering Group. There is a link to a PDF document listing the names and sectors of all members on our Steering Group in post #47.

As before, there is a big difference between the role of the project board and the stakeholder/steering group. The project board consists of the project partners, and is responsible for overseeing the management of the project – they have no role to play in planning Marine Conservation Zones. The stakeholder/steering groups on the other hand are made up of representatives of sea users and interest groups and are responsible for making recommendations on MCZs to Government.

In addition, as we feel it is so important to involve the general public who use the sea, we also employ water users from a variety of sectors who interview the public daily, including evenings and weekends. If you would like us to put you in touch with your nearest Liaison Officer who will arrange to meet you at a convenient time and place, call us on 01392 878 340.

 

[Finding Sanctuary]

Marine Conservation Zones: More Finding Sanctuary drop-in days

Finding Sanctuary are running more drop-in days around the south-west to allow people who use the sea in this region to come and find out more about Marine Conservation Zones. No appointment needed, just come along to find out how MCZs could affect you and how you can get involved by mapping the areas of sea you use.

We have added another January drop-in day in Plymouth, or you could meet us at Weymouth or Falmouth:

Weymouth Drop-in Day
Monday 11th January 2010, 10am - 7pm (the library closes at 7pm)
The Gallery, Weymouth Library, Great George Street, Dorset, DT4 8NN

Plymouth Drop-in Day
Tuesday 19th January 2010, 10am - 8pm
The Royal Western Yacht Club, Queen Anne's Battery, Plymouth, PL4 0TW

Falmouth Drop-in Day
Wednesday 27th January 2010, 10am - 8pm
National Maritime Museum Cornwall, Discovery Quay, Falmouth, Cornwall, TR11 3QY

To find out more call Sarah McLintock on 01392 878 340/07544 590294, email her at sarah.mclintock@southwestfoodanddrink.com or look at our website.

Don’t forget, if you can’t make it to one of our drop-in days, you could always map the areas of sea you use on our Interactive Map online. Alternatively, call us on the number above to arrange an appointment with your nearest Liaison Officer.

If you use the sea in other parts of England, contact your nearest project: South-east – Balanced Seas, North Sea – Net Gain and Irish Sea - Irish Sea Conservation Zones. If you are not sure which regional project you fall under, take a look at our map.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Ok, I've checked your pdf. One canoeist. One leisure boating*. Two divers. One waterskier. Five commercial fishermen. Three sea anglers. Eight 'conservation' organisations. Sundry others including harbours, aggregates, tourism.

So, despite the size of the leisure boating sector and its importance in the SW economy, we have one representative out of 41 (*and that's the RYA, about which many of us have reservations).

Is there a way of co-opting more 'leisure boaters'?

 

[maxi77]

With regards to your concerns about "actual water users" on our committee, I would like to point your attention to posts #46 and #47 in this thread. Water users, also called stakeholders, from a huge range of sectors make up our decision-making Steering Group. There is a link to a PDF document listing the names and sectors of all members on our Steering Group in post #47.

As before, there is a big difference between the role of the project board and the stakeholder/steering group. The project board consists of the project partners, and is responsible for overseeing the management of the project – they have no role to play in planning Marine Conservation Zones. The stakeholder/steering groups on the other hand are made up of representatives of sea users and interest groups and are responsible for making recommendations on MCZs to Government.

In addition, as we feel it is so important to involve the general public who use the sea, we also employ water users from a variety of sectors who interview the public daily, including evenings and weekends. If you would like us to put you in touch with your nearest Liaison Officer who will arrange to meet you at a convenient time and place, call us on 01392 878 340.

My comments were based on wandering around your and other similar organisations web sites. If the info is not easy to stumble accross it is difficult to not form the assumptions I made. Your document shows that the so called stakeholder involvement is limited, though there would seem to be a large central block of conservationists.

The project board runs the whole show, they will clearly control and apply the funds, they say what will and will not happen and the stakeholders will like it or lump it. Those who dissent will be labelled as revisionists and ignored.

Equally as pointed out by another, what is the point of 'consultations' time to ensure that many of those affected will not be able to attend.

Now I know that conservation and sailing can work hand in hand and often share similar interests which can creat substantial synergy, but this has to be achieved through genuine trust which seems to the critical outside observer lacking in this case, based on what you tell the public.

Thanks for the offer to put me in touch with some one who can promote the party line, but I do not live or sail in that area, I would far rather hear that you have a roadshow visiting the local clubs, be that sailing, fishing, diving etc in your area to promote constructive involvement in your plan. Always remember that potentially the largesrt source of observation of the sea in your area is the leisure user, who these days are out and about in far larger numbers than the comercial or conservationist users. Alienate them and you will be deaf and blind, when it comes to monitoring.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Ok, I've checked your pdf. One canoeist. One leisure boating*. Two divers. One waterskier. Five commercial fishermen. Three sea anglers. Eight 'conservation' organisations. Sundry others including harbours, aggregates, tourism.

So, despite the size of the leisure boating sector and its importance in the SW economy, we have one representative out of 41 (*and that's the RYA, about which many of us have reservations).

Is there a way of co-opting more 'leisure boaters'?

It's interesting that Finding Sanctuary in the SW has organised Drop in Days, lots of info on their website, posting on here etc.

Balanced Seas, which covers from Hants/Dorset border (or is it SolentCG/Portland CG areas?) and therefore includes high density leisure boating from the Solent, Chi, Brighton and up the east coast, have a very limited website and appear to have done the better part of nothing.

Two 'organisations' working together on the same programme - joined up thinking? erm, Not a lot !

 

[Twister_Ken]

Balanced Seas has held county meetings. These were in inconvenient places for many of us, and certainly at inconvenient times, and they were not well publicised. This is reflected in the attendance figures (which presumably also include Balanced Sea staffers):

Monday 23 November Hampshire (Southampton); 46 participants
Tuesday 24 November Sussex (Brighton); 60 participants
Wednesday 25 November Essex (Chelmsford); 53 participants
Thursday 26 November Kent (Canterbury); 70 participants
Monday 30 November Isle of Wight (Cowes); 25 participants

Amongst those participants:
Commercial fishing 34%
Local & National Govt 18%
Research & Consultants 11%
Environmental NGOs 9%
Leisure 9%
Angling 7%
Industry 7%
Coastal partnerships 3%
Archaeology & heritage 1%

I guess sail and motor cruisers are in the leisure section, along with swimmers, divers, jetskiers, dinghy sailors, canoeists, windsurfers, etc.

 

[john_morris_uk]

The recomendations that come out of the Stakeholder/Steering Groups from each regional project will be presented to Government and the final decision lies with Government Ministers. Defra, Natural England and the Joint Nature Conservancy Council have set up the Marine Conservation Zone Project, made up for the four regional projects.

Attached to this post is a PDF showing our Steering Group membership as it currently stands. If anyone feels that they are not adequately represented on the Steering Group, they should contact Tom Hooper our project manager on 01392 878327. At the moment we have 40 people on the Steering Group. This Group needs to be representative but it also needs to be a manageable size. Where possible we are asking people and organisations to make affiliations with existing members, if they can. Where this is not possible, people are welcome to speak to Tom about representation on the group.

I am concerned that leisure boaters are represented by one person, but leisure divers who represent a tiny proportion of the number of people who sail and power boat in the same waters have two people. Presumably much more weight will be given to the arguments of Tim Bartlett from the RYA than the PADI instructor and leisure diving rep?

Reading back it appears that I might be echoing the arguments of Twisterken - our point is still valid though and I hope that the leisure sailors will be given a fair hearing.

 

[Cornishman]

"I know next to nothing about the RYA"

You make that quite plain from your regular criticisms of it, so why don't you try to find out more before making any more?

 

[maxi77]

I am concerned that leisure boaters are represented by one person, but leisure divers who represent a tiny proportion of the number of people who sail and power boat in the same waters have two people. Presumably much more weight will be given to the arguments of Tim Bartlett from the RYA than the PADI instructor and leisure diving rep?

Reading back it appears that I might be echoing the arguments of Twisterken - our point is still valid though and I hope that the leisure sailors will be given a fair hearing.

The real question is why are not clubs and club area associations involved. The range of activities now covered by the RYA is now so wide it is pretty much impossible for one person to be expert enough accross the range to effectively represent all, hence multiple divers and serial conservationists.

 

[Robin]

Apart from on these forums I had heard nothing about this locally in Poole, yet we have over 4,000 leisure boats alone here and it is the start of the 'Jurassic Coast'. The only references heard have been from implied threats to use these new powers by those from the Seahorse Trust. The nearest drop in meetings seem to be at least 35mls away in either direction, which matters little because nobody is/was aware of them anyway.

 

[maxi77]

Apart from on these forums I had heard nothing about this locally in Poole, yet we have over 4,000 leisure boats alone here and it is the start of the 'Jurassic Coast'. The only references heard have been from implied threats to use these new powers by those from the Seahorse Trust. The nearest drop in meetings seem to be at least 35mls away in either direction, which matters little because nobody is/was aware of them anyway.

Perhaps it is time for your locqal yacht clubs associtation to spring into life, also perhaps the locval press may be interested.

 

[Finding Sanctuary]

Have your say: More Finding Sanctuary drop-in days across the south-west

If you use the sea in the south-west, we want to hear from you. It is your opportunity to speak to Finding Sanctuary staff about new Marine Conservation Zones, how they could affect you and how you can get involved. Dates have been organised for February and March around the south west, so come along at any time during the day to your nearest venue.

Bude Drop-in Day
Thursday 25th February 2010, 10am – 8pm
Bude Tourist Information Centre, Crescent Car Park, Bude, Cornwall, EX23 8LE

Newlyn/Penzance Drop-in Day
Monday 1st March 2010, 10am – 8pm
Fishermen’s Mission, Ship Institute, North Pier, Newlyn, Penzance, Cornwall, TR18 5JB

Poole Drop-in Day
Thursday 18th March 2010, 10am – 8pm
The Lifeboat College, West Quay Road, Poole, Dorset, BH15 1HZ

Bristol Drop-in Day
Tuesday 23rd March 2010, 10am – 8pm
The Kings Arms, 168 Whiteladies Road, Bristol, BS8 2XZ

To find out more call Sarah McLintock on 01392 878 340/07544 590294, email her at sarah@finding-sanctuary.org or look at our website.

Don’t forget, if you can’t make it to one of our drop-in days, you could always map the areas of sea you use on our Interactive Map online.

If you use the sea in other parts of England, contact your nearest project:
South-east - Balanced Seas
North Sea - Net Gain
Irish Sea - Irish Sea Conservation Zones.

If you are not sure which regional project you fall under, take a look at our map.

 

[Finding Sanctuary]

Apart from on these forums I had heard nothing about this locally in Poole, yet we have over 4,000 leisure boats alone here and it is the start of the 'Jurassic Coast'. The only references heard have been from implied threats to use these new powers by those from the Seahorse Trust. The nearest drop in meetings seem to be at least 35mls away in either direction, which matters little because nobody is/was aware of them anyway.

Hi Robin,

We have been planning a few drop in days in Dorset and I'm sorry you didn't make it to Weymouth in January. I hope we will see you at the Poole drop-in day on March 18th. Just ask for me on the day and I will help in any way I can.

Alana

 

[Horace]

Hi Robin,

We have been planning a few drop in days in Dorset and I'm sorry you didn't make it to Weymouth in January. I hope we will see you at the Poole drop-in day on March 18th. Just ask for me on the day and I will help in any way I can.

Alana

How about the people that live outside the area but will be affected by the consequences of your actions nevertheless?(studland Bay is used by many passing yachtsmen seeking sanctuary).No pun intended

 

[webcraft]

How about the people that live outside the area but will be affected by the consequences of your actions nevertheless?(studland Bay is used by many passing yachtsmen seeking sanctuary).No pun intended

Not sure if I get your point here. Surely the rest of us will have to rely on local yachtsmen to represent our interests - or are you saying they can't be trusted to do so?

Alana seems to be bending over backwards to involve the sailing community in this process - I think some of you are being a little bit negative about the whole thing.

- W