Finding Sanctuary: Planning Marine Conservation Zones in the south-west

[Adonnante]

[

What sort of restrictions are these MCZ going to involve for those who use the area for either business or pleasure? Will it be a blanket ban on everything, or subjective depending on each and every case? Will a zone be split up with different actions being possible in different areas depending on the microenvironment?

And also, how is it all going to be enforced?[/QUOTE]



I visted the Totnes drop in day on Wednesday and asked these questions. Beth Henshall the Recreational Boating Liaison Officer was unable to be precise but thought that any restrictions would be selective both in scope and location. However this has yet to be decided by the various committees. The RYA in the Marine and Coastal Access Bill has gained an ammendment to ensure that the bill applies to all classes of vessel.

'The Bill was drafted so that byelaws could be made in relation to Marine Conservation Zones (MCZ) specifically to regulate recreational vessels. We wanted the reference to recreational vessels removed so that they could not be unfairly penalised. This amendment was accepted.'

As for enforcement the I've see a list somewhere, possibly the MCA Bill, with all the usual suspects included.

I am concerned that out of three committees and 34 committee members; the RYA role appears only advisory, there is only one member to represent watersports. This responsibility is shared with his other role of representing the SW Tourist Industry which could be seen as being in conflict with say, representing users of local anchorages v's the financial performance of a harbour authority.

Beth Henshall admitted to viewing this forum so perhaps we can look forward to updates on the progress of the various committees.

Peter.

 

[KristiferColumbus]

I've just done a internet trawl and the majority of Yacht and Sailing Clubs websites state that they welcome new members. Are you saying you want Yacht clubs to act like Electricity Suppliers and push application forms under your nose. Speaking about my own Club "Christchurch Sailing Club" we certainly welcome applications, we do meet prospective members and we do have a probationary period, mainly since we restrict new memberships to active sailors. I am aware of some non club members sailing in the harbour, and I assume they choose not to join, it is in the end a personal choice. But I hope not many have the prejudice that all Yacht and Sailing Clubs are snobby places not for them. Club membership is what you make it.

No I don't expect membership applications to be pushed under my door like utility suppliers glashen.It could be that I am prejudiced by the comments of a very dear friend of mine (now passed away) & someones else's comments that it is full of Doctors & Lawyers I don't know.The fact is that no one has mentioned it to me despite my being quite a prominent member of the boating community.I probably could'nt afford it anyway though I do relish having friends to share a common interest with.
My main reason for mentioning it was to correct the other posters comments & point out that we are not all members of yachting & boating clubs.(or could even be brought into the discussion using the other methods high lighted by "Finding Sanctuary").

 

[sea urchin]

I've read everything so far, but taken in very little. If it hasn't already been asked and answered then here are my questions.

What sort of restrictions are these MCZ going to involve for those who use the area for either business or pleasure? Will it be a blanket ban on everything, or subjective depending on each and every case? Will a zone be split up with different actions being possible in different areas depending on the microenvironment?

And also, how is it all going to be enforced?

Here are a couple of links which may help:
http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2009/091112c.htm

http://www.jncc.gov.uk/PDF/MCZProjectInfoDoc_v1_2.pdf

It looks like early days and the point of the consultation is to address points such as yours, and hopefully to create MCZ's which take local conservation and other needs into account. Therefore, hopefully not "a one glove fits all" situation, however Natural England is tasked with overseeing the process, so who knows.

As to who will enforce it - a new quango in Newcastle called the MMO, (Marine Management Organisation) which is just recruiting, new bodies called inshore fisheries and conservation authorities (replacing the sea fisheries councils), the EA, and the RN.
see pages 43,45, and 63 of : http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/marine/documents/legislation/mab-policy.pdf
On spot fines of £200 for things like anchoring where it is prohibited etc.

It all looks good on paper. We should take up any opportunities offered to influence how it will develop, in practice. We might start by supporting the efforts of the RYA, who do have a voice which might be heard through the volume turned on by other interests.

 

[KristiferColumbus]

[


I am concerned that out of three committees and 34 committee members; the RYA role appears only advisory, there is only one member to represent watersports. This responsibility is shared with his other role of representing the SW Tourist Industry which could be seen as being in conflict with say, representing users of local anchorages v's the financial performance of a harbour authority.

Beth Henshall admitted to viewing this forum so perhaps we can look forward to updates on the progress of the various committees.

Peter.

Well said that man I reckon our interests are not being represented & it is unjust.

 

[sea urchin]

Well said that man I reckon our interests are not being represented & it is unjust.

Point taken.

Then how can we add to what the RYA is doing? Our weakness is that we are not as well organised as the other interests involved, at European, national, regional or local levels. Perhaps lobbying Hilary Benn, or our MPs, MEP's might be a start.

Any other ideas?

 

[Finding Sanctuary]

Taking "Balanced Seas" as an example, its board members are either local authority bureaucrats or conservationists. Not a sole representative of shipping, fishing, diving or leisure boating.

In all four regional Marine Conservation Zone projects, there is a big difference between the role of the project board and the stakeholder/steering group. The project board consist of the project partners, and is responsible for overseeing the management of the project – they have no role to play in planning Marine Conservation Zones. The stakeholder/steering groups on the other hand are made up of representatives of sea users and interest groups and are responsible for making recommendations on MCZs to Government.

 

[Finding Sanctuary]

I am interested in finding out whether Finding Sanctuary or whoever is the top decision making organisation is getting a full and truly representative picture of the views of the water users.

The recomendations that come out of the Stakeholder/Steering Groups from each regional project will be presented to Government and the final decision lies with Government Ministers. Defra, Natural England and the Joint Nature Conservancy Council have set up the Marine Conservation Zone Project, made up for the four regional projects.

Attached to this post is a PDF showing our Steering Group membership as it currently stands. If anyone feels that they are not adequately represented on the Steering Group, they should contact Tom Hooper our project manager on 01392 878327. At the moment we have 40 people on the Steering Group. This Group needs to be representative but it also needs to be a manageable size. Where possible we are asking people and organisations to make affiliations with existing members, if they can. Where this is not possible, people are welcome to speak to Tom about representation on the group.

 

[DownWest]

Lets say that I am legaly transiting a no anchor area and have a rigging failure, the engine fails to start and the current is taking me onto the rocks. I drop the hook to stop the drift and try and sort out the situation. Black rib roars up and some guy says "Your Nicked, that will be £200 quid."
Should my rights as a seaman take precidence, or, more likely, will I end up in court? As above, there seem to be a lot of different bodies involved, all funded by the taxpayer. The outcome for leasure users looks iffy. Esp as they (the bodies)need to 'do something' to justify their existance.
A

Ed: I agree about the scallop dredgers needing control.

 

[Pye_End]

Lets say that I am legaly transiting a no anchor area and have a rigging failure, the engine fails to start and the current is taking me onto the rocks. I drop the hook to stop the drift and try and sort out the situation. Black rib roars up and some guy says "Your Nicked, that will be £200 quid."
Should my rights as a seaman take precidence, or, more likely, will I end up in court? As above, there seem to be a lot of different bodies involved, all funded by the taxpayer. The outcome for leasure users looks iffy. Esp as they (the bodies)need to 'do something' to justify their existance.
A

Ed: I agree about the scallop dredgers needing control.

From the RYA website:

Summary of RYA amendments and outcomes
1. The Bill was drafted so that byelaws could be made in relation to Marine Conservation Zones (MCZ) specifically to regulate recreational vessels. We wanted the reference to recreational vessels removed so that they could not be unfairly penalised. This amendment was accepted.

2. The Bill also would have put UK vessels at a disadvantage compared to foreign vessels and we believed this to be unfair. Our proposed amendment to rectify this was accepted in the House of Lords

3. We wanted to make sure that any person charged for breaching any byelaws relating to a MCZ would have a defence that they took reasonable steps to avoid committing the breach. The Act will contain a defence for securing the safety of a vessel and we obtained an assurance from Government that a ‘reasonable steps’ defence would be included in byelaws made under the Act.

4. The Bill provided that, when creating an MCZ, the relevant authorities “may” take into account socio-economic factors. We proposed an amendment to change the ”may” to ”must”. The purpose of this amendment was not actually to achieve an amendment, which we knew the Government would not agree to, but to counteract proposals by environmental organisations that socio economic factors, like the effect an MCZ might have on recreational boating, should not be considered at all. The attempts of environmental organisations to remove the reference to socio-economic factors were successfully resisted.

5. We also received ministerial assurances in relation to minimising the impact of the coastal access provisions on clubs and marinas.

 

[Pye_End]

I just want to state for the record that though I have lived in my current location (which will remain secret so that I do not embarrass anyone myself included) for about ten years & that though this region has an active boat/sailing club.I have never been invited to join & have never seen invitations for new members to join anywhere.
I have been as active as anyone & probably a lot more active than most of it's members in & around Portsmouth from observation.
I know next to nothing about the RYA except that they seem like another snobby organization similar to the Royal Southern Yacht Club where I grew up in Bursledon knocking about on the banks of the Hamble river.All these organizations seem hierarchical & as ken rightly points out are not truly representative of the general public at large.

You can join here - it's very easy:

https://www.rya.org.uk/joinrenew/Pages/JoinRenewForm.aspx

 

[DownWest]

Thank you Pye End, I feel 'slightly' more secure. But am pessamistic about the aims of bureaucrats.
A

 

[KristiferColumbus]

Point taken.

Then how can we add to what the RYA is doing? Our weakness is that we are not as well organised as the other interests involved, at European, national, regional or local levels. Perhaps lobbying Hilary Benn, or our MPs, MEP's might be a start.

Any other ideas?

Yes why are the yachting press so quiet,you would think that something like an anchoring ban that can drastically change the face of cruising & even put peoples lives at risk would be highly publicized would'nt you?

 

[Finding Sanctuary]

Have your say: More Finding Sanctuary drop-in days across the south-west

If you use the sea in the south-west, we want to hear from you. Come along to one of the Finding Sanctuary drop-in days to find out how new Marine Conservation Zones could affect you and how you can get involved. Dates for the new year are already being added, just come along at any time during the day.

Weymouth Drop-in Day
Monday 11th January 2010, 10am – 7pm
The Gallery, Weymouth Library, Great George Street, Dorset, DT4 8NN

Falmouth Drop-in Day
Wednesday 27th January 2010, 10am - 8pm
National Maritime Museum Cornwall, Discovery Quay, Falmouth, Cornwall, TR11 3QY

A drop-in day in Plymouth is also being planned for January, details to follow soon.

To find out more call Sarah McLintock on 01392 878 340/07544 590294, email her at sarah.mclintock@southwestfoodanddrink.com or look at our website.

Don’t forget, if you can’t make it to one of our drop-in days, you could always map the areas of sea you use on our Interactive Map online. If you use the sea in other parts of England, contact your nearest project: South-east - Balanced Seas, North Sea - Net Gain and Irish Sea - Irish Sea Conservation Zones. If you are not sure which regional project you fall under, take a look at our map.

 

[maxi77]

Having had a further look at some of the other sites, the lack of involvement in the management of these organisations of any user of the sea or it would appear foreshore is very worrying. One can see that a spot of eelgrass in Studland could be the least of our problems as vast tracts of sea and coast become sterilised in the name of the false god of conservation.

This is surely an arena where local associations of yacht clubs and RYA regions should be really jumping up and down to be far more visibly involved

 

[Twister_Ken]

Symptomatic of the half-arsed way that these bodies have been cobbled together is that they are organised by land boundaries, not sea boundaries. The SW body, Finding Sanctuary, should have stopped at Portland Bill. The SE body, should have run from there to North Foreland.

But no, they're organised by county boundaries, FFS.

Nor do they recognise that many leisure users don't live on the coast, and can't 'drop in' on a Monday in Weymouth, or wherever.

Is there an emoticon for 'it makes my blood boil'?

 

[maxi77]

Symptomatic of the half-arsed way that these bodies have been cobbled together is that they are organised by land boundaries, not sea boundaries. The SW body, Finding Sanctuary, should have stopped at Portland Bill. The SE body, should have run from there to North Foreland.

But no, they're organised by county boundaries, FFS.

Nor do they recognise that many leisure users don't live on the coast, and can't 'drop in' on a Monday in Weymouth, or wherever.

Is there an emoticon for 'it makes my blood boil'?

Which is why there needs to be local Yacht Club Associations with active people who do take an interest and get involved. We have such an association where I am and it does get stuck into these things with good results, partly because you are seen as representing a lot of people and by being localy based where as the RYA is more remote. Of course you also get a lot of support from the RYA through the associations.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Symptomatic of the half-arsed way that these bodies have been cobbled together is that they are organised by land boundaries, not sea boundaries. The SW body, Finding Sanctuary, should have stopped at Portland Bill. The SE body, should have run from there to North Foreland.

But no, they're organised by county boundaries, FFS.

Nor do they recognise that many leisure users don't live on the coast, and can't 'drop in' on a Monday in Weymouth, or wherever.

Is there an emoticon for 'it makes my blood boil'?

I think that's being a little unfair. Ok so there aren't meetings in every village/town but they are certainly trying to make themselves accessible via the internet. They didn't have to post here but chose to do so which has made many more people aware of what's actually happening. And they are actively seeking comments from anyone who cares to contact them and providing email addresses and phone numbers.

What more should they be doing?

 

[Twister_Ken]

"What more should they be doing?"

How about addressing sea zones rather than counties? How about drop in days at weekends? How about recruiting people from the sailing, angling, diving, fishing and shipping communities onto their boards and panels? How about consulting with clubs and associations?

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I think that's being a little unfair. Ok so there aren't meetings in every village/town but they are certainly trying to make themselves accessible via the internet. They didn't have to post here but chose to do so which has made many more people aware of what's actually happening. And they are actively seeking comments from anyone who cares to contact them and providing email addresses and phone numbers.

Spot on.

 

[maxi77]

I think that's being a little unfair. Ok so there aren't meetings in every village/town but they are certainly trying to make themselves accessible via the internet. They didn't have to post here but chose to do so which has made many more people aware of what's actually happening. And they are actively seeking comments from anyone who cares to contact them and providing email addresses and phone numbers.

What more should they be doing?

I think you are rolling over, lying back and thinking of England a trifle too much, they have set up a structure that deliberately excludes the actual users of the water from the descision making process. We have an apparent consultation, once again rigged to excluded those who have to work on normal working days. Yes they have web sites but they seem mainly to be th promote the 'party line'. Do you not find it strange that there are so few from the 'stakeholder' groups actually involved in the running of these groups.

I certainly get the impression that like our Sea Horse chums they have already made their minds up.