Fifty Feet of Grey (steel)

The shallow shaft angle should give the boat a very level trim angle at cruise, another benefit with tunnels; as well as a gain in efficiency.
Mmm... While it's true that in principle a shallow shaft angle is more efficient AOTBE, the effect of that (and of tunnels) on stern lift is actually the opposite.
The same hull, with the same engines placement, would have more stern lift with no tunnels and a consequently higher shafts angle.
As always, it's a matter of compromising between the pros and cons...

As an aside, Rob, your drawings reminded me what you said in another thread re. your interest in being able to dry out the boat.
Considering the deep keel you've got, which leaves the props above its bottom, you might consider enclosing each shaft in a steel skeg, with steel bars going under the props and working as rudders shoes.
It's a solution widely used in trawlers/workboats, and such setup would surely be far safer with regard to drying out.
Though of course, purely in terms of efficiency you might loose half a knot max speed or whatever, and burn a bit more fuel, particularly at higher speed....
...horses for courses springs to mind.
Just a thought, anyway. It would have been a nightmare to make such change on a GRP moulded hull, but with a steel vessel at least you've got the choice! :)
 
MM I think Rob mentioned that there's no deep keel on his, these are older drawings.

Why can't you have retractable "feet" as per large mobile cranes to help you protect the sterngear and dryout and then pull them up and do 25kn or so ;)
or use the stabilisers as supports, howsthat for a clever idea to sink your boat at the next tide? :D

cheers

V.
 
discuss courtesy lights
Give us a description of what you're looking for, where they're going, etc, and I'll be happy to make some suggestions. We need to keep in mind that anything to be fitted to steel plate must have a round hole, preferably small
Project generally looks fantastic Rob. Great going.
 
Today, the remainder of the bow section soft nose is being installed.
We really should be looking ship shape....

As much as i would love to say we can dry this out, i think in reality is different, and I'm being sensible. Great idea, but i have chewed enough off... The skeg is not getting fitted, two independent company's have agreed its not required. We may even gain a knot. We certainly shed about 50kg... Every little helps.
If its required, its actually easier to weld on after, than cut off after...
 
MM I think Rob mentioned that there's no deep keel on his, these are older drawings.

Why can't you have retractable "feet" as per large mobile cranes to help you protect the sterngear and dryout and .....

Guess you could have a 10 x 20 Cm wide part of two seperate outer sections (aft corners) which could be adjusted to keep hull level when dried out... hydraulics or simpler .... (could even use those "exhaust tunnels" for something..... or are they removed as well ?).
 
Today, the remainder of the bow section soft nose is being installed.
We really should be looking ship shape....

As much as i would love to say we can dry this out, i think in reality is different, and I'm being sensible. Great idea, but i have chewed enough off... The skeg is not getting fitted, two independent company's have agreed its not required. We may even gain a knot. We certainly shed about 50kg... Every little helps.
If its required, its actually easier to weld on after, than cut off after...

This what the RNLI came up with after 7 years of extensive research for their new Shannon Class lifeboat; [I've edited it too the relevant start place]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WxLTKk3Deg&list=PL3D9E8F471CCF8034#t=49

If you have any handling problems, just weld on a couple of mini~skegs like the Shannon class to make the boat track straight.:)

Very similar specs to your boat re. power and displacement>

Displacement: 17 long tons (17 t)
Length: 13.6 m (44 ft 7 in)
Beam: 4.54 m (14 ft 11 in)
Draught: 0.75 m (2 ft 6 in)
Propulsion: 2 × Scania DI13M, 650 hp (485 kW)
2 × Hamilton HJ 364 Waterjets
Speed: 27 knots (31 mph; 50 km/h)
Range: 250 nmi (460 km)
Complement: 5
 
Vas,
(edit.... oops, sorry V, it was dm1..... :).
stop with the ideas :) i have thrown enough thoughts across at the yard to give them a few heart stopping moments. I think they are getting used to my random thought process's by now... Maybe for number two :D

(I am gratefull really)


Thanks JFM
I have a collection growing at the moment. I quite like the long thin ones from osculati, I have several at home, comparing light output etc.
13.427.11 is one i have
I also have similar from suardi, but the light output is too cold. Im planning on sticking with white light, im not sure blues and reds will suit...
Im looking at the osculati Tilly as well. Its round, as apposed to the long narrow design.
These are for the foredeck sides, and the flybridge.


Fixing, i was looking at M3 well nuts, but i think can get away with a modern adhesive. The less holes the better...
The rounded 'tilly' is just a case of hole drilled, and adhesive....

I have the quick, cantalupi and prebit catalogue here as well to look through...
 
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Alf, the exhaust are staying in situ. Although will have a nice polish SS rubbing strip.
They are being used, just not for exhausts.
Now running underwater 2chamber exhaust boxes, so will be utilising this space, possibly for hot air exit from engine room, and also, maybe fitting some of the skin fittings under, so cant be spotted. Dont like the idea of bullet holes down the side...
 
Alf, the exhaust are staying in situ. Although will have a nice polish SS rubbing strip.
They are being used, just not for exhausts.
Now running underwater 2chamber exhaust boxes, so will be utilising this space, possibly for hot air exit from engine room, and also, maybe fitting some of the skin fittings under, so cant be spotted. Dont like the idea of bullet holes down the side...

Rob, just a reminder that hot air goes UP, so unless you have a internal channel picking up air from the top of the e/r AND you have some serious fans, air wont go out the exhaust holes...
Doubt that you'll manage to route many skin fittings back there as showers/galley/etc are further ahead, but its a good idea to hide even a couple of them in there. I guess no skin fittings per se, but more like welded tubes as sealing a skin fitting on the curvature of the 5-6inch tube wont be fun.

V.
 
You may be suprised how high up the exhaust tubes are in the engine bay, which was also partly my reason for refusal to use them for a wet exhaust system. No fall off really.
Im half expecting to run some form of ducting, and maybe even four fan units, 2 in, and 2 out...
Theres actually no tube in there, its just a hollow box section basically, with formers running through for pipe/hose. I think i measured it at 6inch diameter. But, it was irrelevant really for exhaust.... But, would be easy to run 6inch ducting through for fan system :)
Hopefully.....
 
Thanks JFM
I have a collection growing at the moment. I quite like the long thin ones from osculati, I have several at home, comparing light output etc.
13.427.11 is one i have
I also have similar from suardi, but the light output is too cold. Im planning on sticking with white light, im not sure blues and reds will suit...
Im looking at the osculati Tilly as well. Its round, as apposed to the long narrow design.
These are for the foredeck sides, and the flybridge.


Fixing, i was looking at M3 well nuts, but i think can get away with a modern adhesive. The less holes the better...
The rounded 'tilly' is just a case of hole drilled, and adhesive....

I have the quick, cantalupi and prebit catalogue here as well to look through...

Lots is down to personal choice here. FWIW, on the boat's exterior you need to choose a colour temperature then be as consistent as you can. I prefer colder white outside, say 5500k and you'll find many suppliers don't even quote the temperature so you end up having to do trial and error in sourcing various items. Anyway, all that you mention are nice and here is some further food for thought:

1. Hella step light 8560 are very good value and work well along side decks and step risers. I had these on my Sq58 outside with no failures. I also used them on the main internal staircase in my current boat - pic below. They need just a small hole then you can glue them on. No visible screw heads. http://www.hellamarine.com/en/products/courtesy-lamps/step/.
IMG_4507.jpg


2. For my side decks I used on my current boat a round Hella http://www.hellamarine.com/en/produ...enhanced-brightness-round-courtesy-lamps.html . There is an identical sized F+S unit which I used on my previous boat but unfortunately there was colour inconsistency across the batch of 50 or so lights hence I switched to Hella for this boat. They need a 50mm hole which was easy on GRP but not good in steel so perhaps these wont help you. They have no screws showing and have proved highly reliable. Pic below
photo4.jpg


3. "Cabin" lights, afaik only available in UK from Calibra, produce 4 narrow pencil-like streaks of light and look very good on stairs. http://www.calibramarine.com/shop/category.aspx?catid=48. I have the 1030 model under the step surface of my flybridge and galley stairs on Match 2, pointing down to the step below, and I have them recessed flush into the s/s plate under the steps by laser cutting. Colour is slightly warm for my liking, maybe 4000k, so you might like them. Beautiful things, but the screw holes show so best used under steps as I have done imho, and £80 each, erk

4. When designing interior consider creating channels for LED strips. In ceilings, pelmets and staircase nosings for example. These can make for quite nice light, but it's important that you never see the actual LEDs and only see the glow, so you have to create spaces to place the strips. I'll post some pictures. Also uplit glass vases and edge lit glass can look good, but again you have to design this into your furniture build

In all the above I haven't mentioned CRI. I don't think it matters much for step lights and hidden accent or mood lighting. It only matters in my book for main area lighting, like ceiling downlights, and at the last look Cantalupi are still leading the way in terms of high CRI values
 
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Thats excellent, thanks very much.
At the moment, just finalising exterior lights, so we can finish with all steel work. My helium puddled brain can only cope with so much. Anyway, there are a couple of companies there I completely forgot about, (hella, and calibra)
I also have some samples coming from SE. Asia. Have a look at www.ledinglight.com in Taiwan. They also do lots of bespoke steelwork... But for slightly bigger boats too :)
I will be spending a day or three in southampton area, so will be doing the rounds.

Were there any you thought were definitely not up to the task??


I may have to go to Chichester for a week.... I believe there is a hyperbaric medical unit their, and i have a refresher to do... May bring my old sunsqueeker over from jersey for accommodation, and give me time to go round more of the suppliers.....
 
Thats excellent, thanks very much.
At the moment, just finalising exterior lights, so we can finish with all steel work. My helium puddled brain can only cope with so much. Anyway, there are a couple of companies there I completely forgot about, (hella, and calibra)
I also have some samples coming from SE. Asia. Have a look at www.ledinglight.com in Taiwan. They also do lots of bespoke steelwork... But for slightly bigger boats too :)
I will be spending a day or three in southampton area, so will be doing the rounds.

Were there any you thought were definitely not up to the task??


I may have to go to Chichester for a week.... I believe there is a hyperbaric medical unit their, and i have a refresher to do... May bring my old sunsqueeker over from jersey for accommodation, and give me time to go round more of the suppliers.....
Imho apart from colour inconsistency in the Foresti Suardis they were all good and up to the task

That Ledinglight.com site worried me. Some of the lights were just too dim, at 80 Lumens. also they wrote in spec sheets "output flux = xxx lm" which is an oxymoron. Flux is brightness whereas lumens are quantity of light. So the author didn't understand lighting science at all. The lights might of course be fine - I'm just saying beware because there is evidence of folks potentially not knowing their stuff there. They also claimed a CRI of ">90" which is extraordinarily high and if true it's a great thing but with no info about which LEDs they are using and their low efficiency on some lights (80 lumens per watt) I gotta say I'm suspicious of the 90 claim. They also wrote "90" not "90%" - as CRI is a fraction of one it can in strictness only be stated as a percentage not a number like "90". So more grounds for suspicion that they aren't as good as the blurb says. Anyways, just beware. Cantalupi for sure quote good data and don't tell lies about their interior lighting performance
 
MM I think Rob mentioned that there's no deep keel on his, these are older drawings.
Ops, I stand corrected.
Well, actually the boat, being built in steel as it happens, could still dry out just on the skegs, I suppose.
Which would make the whole propulsion more protected/stronger anyway, though obviously at the expense of a bit of top speed/fuel burn.
Though in this respect (and I'm talking to Rob here), I think that 50kg (or even if it would be 50x2) doesn't make any perceivable difference, in a boat like yours.
Not as much as the lower hydrodynamic efficiency, particularly above D speed, anyway.

Oh, and re. welding them afterwards, I reckon that the rudders design should be different with skegs, so not as an easy retrofit as (maybe) for the keel.
Apropos, weren't you also considering keel cooling, or am I loosing the plot again? :)
 
Hi Mapism
Yes. I considered keel cooling. But with no keel!! I couldn't find an answer for that regarding planing boats and design etc etc, so unless you have a cunning plan :)
You are bang on with the rudder shapes being different with/without the keel.
All these 50kg savings are adding up. Means i can have more fuel/water/beer....


JFM, thanks for the headsup.
For the cost i will bring some over and have a look see what the quality is like. I would not be surprised to see the same led units under the covers as a host of other companies.
Its just external from there anyway, so i will bung them under a shower while plugged in, see how they like it... (Obviously on a panel, to simulate being installed correctly....
 
All these 50kg savings are adding up. Means i can have more fuel/water/beer....
LOL, now that's an indisputable objection, if I've ever seen one! :cool:

Sorry, but nope, never heard of any engine cooling solution with neither a keel nor raw water.
I've seen steel boats built with a double hull bottom for structural bunker tanks, so I would guess that in principle the same solution could be used for circulating cooling water, but THAT would probably add tons rather than kgs to the construction... Talk about overshooting...! :D
 
Obviously when i get to Norway, need to make sure i have adequate stocks of beer at their prices... :)
So, three thousand litres of fuel, and three thousand litres of ale :)

Rob, from what I've read you'll be illegal if you don't declare that (and pay hefty tax for it!)

V.
 
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