+1, as basic 1st aiders may lack the skills neccessary to call it.
Fatality at Dartmouth
- Thread starter ghostlymoron
- Start date
+1, as basic 1st aiders may lack the skills neccessary to call it.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Sorry, should have given something. You can find all the LAS reports at https://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/health-professionals/gp-information/documents-and-guidelines/. The cardiac ones are most interesting to me. Here (as I understand it, correction from medics welcome) is the most recent table of reasons for hearts stopping and the outcomes.
The thing which most impresses me is the huge increase in survival chances (from "lousy" to "bad") when a defibrillator is used.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Clearly there are some times - two people on a boat far from help - when a tough decision has to be made, but where there is any reasonable prospect of qualified help arriving, the humane decision has to be to carry one, even if things appear hopeless.
KINGFISHER 9
Well-Known Member
Rob James lasted 4 minutes before they could get him back aboard when he fell off a fully crewed yacht entering Exmouth (I think) in the middle of Winter.
edit:- It was off Salcombe.
edit:- It was off Salcombe.
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Hambleite
Well-Known Member
This sounds like a tragic story and condolences to any of his family and friends that have been affected.
On the RIB I have simple rule - everyone wears a lifejacket, non-negotiable. This means I wear mine all the time too. Consequently, the shape of my lifejacket kinda moulds to your body shape thus making the lifejacket even more comfortable. You also tend to develop muscle memory for putting in on, even the crotch straps!
As I've got older I've noticed that I'm not as able / flexible / nimble / strong as I used to be and I would consider the chances of falling in getting greater as someone gets older. I often see 'older' gentlemen on the River Hamble rowing around their tenders with no lifejacket - it's only a matter of time before we have a similar accident, with similar consequences.
FWIW, we have Baltic Race 150 lifejackets and have been very happy with them for the past 6 years.
On the RIB I have simple rule - everyone wears a lifejacket, non-negotiable. This means I wear mine all the time too. Consequently, the shape of my lifejacket kinda moulds to your body shape thus making the lifejacket even more comfortable. You also tend to develop muscle memory for putting in on, even the crotch straps!
As I've got older I've noticed that I'm not as able / flexible / nimble / strong as I used to be and I would consider the chances of falling in getting greater as someone gets older. I often see 'older' gentlemen on the River Hamble rowing around their tenders with no lifejacket - it's only a matter of time before we have a similar accident, with similar consequences.
FWIW, we have Baltic Race 150 lifejackets and have been very happy with them for the past 6 years.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Rob James was in the water for much more than 4 minutes. Over an hour by most accounts.
KINGFISHER 9
Well-Known Member
Reported at the time as 4 minutes … you must be thinking of somebody else.
He was dead by the time they tried to get him aboard which is why they couldn't do it. They found his body a couple of hours later but it was the initial shock that killed him, in 4 minutes or probably less.
He was dead by the time they tried to get him aboard which is why they couldn't do it. They found his body a couple of hours later but it was the initial shock that killed him, in 4 minutes or probably less.
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lw395
Well-Known Member
Your source?
KINGFISHER 9
Well-Known Member
A member of the crew of Colt Cars who tried to get him aboard and failed. He reckoned they failed because he was already dead from a heart attack. I was introduced to him with a couple of others one Friday night, after racing, in the Royal Cornwall Yacht Club. Please don't ask me his name, it was 30 odd years ago. If I'd known I was going to wake up an anal keyboard warrior- one of the types who never believe anything without a 'source' - I wouldn't have mentioned that I knew anything about it in the first place.
lw395
Well-Known Member
I was in Plymouth when it happened.
The version I heard at the time differs somewhat, I was quite young then and it made a big impression on me, as I was starting to do a fair amount of coastal sailing. As the version I heard was also told at a bar, I suppose I've no reason to trust it more than yours, but it was reported at the time that Rob James called to the crew on deck from the water.
A terrible waste.
The version I heard at the time differs somewhat, I was quite young then and it made a big impression on me, as I was starting to do a fair amount of coastal sailing. As the version I heard was also told at a bar, I suppose I've no reason to trust it more than yours, but it was reported at the time that Rob James called to the crew on deck from the water.
A terrible waste.
Giblets
Well-Known Member
Your facts are totally incorrect. They did not get him back on board; it was not on a fully crewed yacht; it was not the middle of winter but the middle of March; you are however correct that it was Salcome.
I know all this because he was my wife's brother.
Giblets
Well-Known Member
I wear one on these for dinghy to shore trips. https://www.guycotten.co.uk/baraka-flotation-waistcoat-c-32_139_145/
[70521]
Well-Known Member
You need to find an instructor who is more realistic. You keep going as long as you can without putting yourself in harms way.
Try it one day it is bloody knackering and that is with the biggest adrenalin rush you have ever had.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I don't see any disagreement. One of you says "until ... you physically can't do anymore", the other says "as long as you can". Not putting yourself in harm's way is a side issue - the point is that as amateurs we do not at some point just say "guy's a goner" and stop if we could possibly (and safely) continue.
Indeed. It's surprising just how much oomph you have to put into poor Resusci Annie - whose face, remarkably on topic, is based on the death mask of a young woman pulled, drowned, from the Seine.
penberth3
Well-Known Member
That was all explained on a Radio 4 programme a couple of years ago. I think they called her "l'inconnu de la Seine".
[70521]
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I should have explained I spent five years in a Mountain Rescue Team. Performing CPR and mouth to mouth with chunks of ice or rock whizzing past is a very real risk.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
You'd be surprised how short a time you can keep up chest compressions and mouth to mouth. I was absolutely spent after 15 minutes. If you're alone with the casualty up a mountain, on a boat or even on a marina pontoon, that's not long for assistance to arrive. Just do your best but miracles don't often happen (depending on how you define them).
[70521]
Well-Known Member
My last first aid qualification was taught by a Para battlefield paramedic. Perhaps the best practical first aid course I have ever done! Since then I've totally changed my first aid kit, gone onto field dressings.
The last two requalification have said go until you are exhausted, about 10 mins. We are working in a totally different environment and the local ambulance is not going to pull up beside the boat in under 11 mins (there might be a huge clue there about the time somebody is expected to do CPR).
The last two requalification have said go until you are exhausted, about 10 mins. We are working in a totally different environment and the local ambulance is not going to pull up beside the boat in under 11 mins (there might be a huge clue there about the time somebody is expected to do CPR).
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Do many people shoot at you while you're sailing? I heard that the owners of Sanda were a bit antisocial, but not that bad, surely?
How long does it take the local ambulance to get to a pontoon in Dartmouth?