family dinghy to 'play' on the lake

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pcatterall

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I ( age 78!) may join my local sailing club but want to get a dinghy to play/cruise rather than race. I hope that my grandchildren 16,14 1nd 4 might get the bug and enlist on some of the courses, my son (45) is also keen.
I live very close to the lake and would be tempted just to go for a row or gentle sail.
So we are looking for a dinghy that rows and sails, can carry 4 people and be launched from a (good) ramp.
I appreciate that wayfarers or GP 14s will be in the frame ( though they don't strike me as rowable).
Any other suggestions please?
 
pcatterall said:
I ( age 78!) may join my local sailing club but want to get a dinghy to play/cruise rather than race. I hope that my grandchildren 16,14 1nd 4 might get the bug and enlist on some of the courses, my son (45) is also keen.
I live very close to the lake and would be tempted just to go for a row or gentle sail.
So we are looking for a dinghy that rows and sails, can carry 4 people and be launched from a (good) ramp.
I appreciate that wayfarers or GP 14s will be in the frame ( though they don't strike me as rowable).
Any other suggestions please?
Click to expand...
Scuttlebutt would be a better place to ask than PBO or are yo looking for a dooerupper
 
pcatterall said:
I ( age 78!) may join my local sailing club but want to get a dinghy to play/cruise rather than race. I hope that my grandchildren 16,14 1nd 4 might get the bug and enlist on some of the courses, my son (45) is also keen.
I live very close to the lake and would be tempted just to go for a row or gentle sail.
So we are looking for a dinghy that rows and sails, can carry 4 people and be launched from a (good) ramp.
I appreciate that wayfarers or GP 14s will be in the frame ( though they don't strike me as rowable).
Any other suggestions please?
Click to expand...
A Mirror would fit the bill if two of the four are small children

Its a good sailing dinghy esp for children, rows well ( so long as you fit a cover on the cenreboard slot to avoid getting a wet bum) and can take a small outboard
 
pcatterall said:
I ( age 78!) may join my local sailing club but want to get a dinghy to play/cruise rather than race. I hope that my grandchildren 16,14 1nd 4 might get the bug and enlist on some of the courses, my son (45) is also keen.
I live very close to the lake and would be tempted just to go for a row or gentle sail.
So we are looking for a dinghy that rows and sails, can carry 4 people and be launched from a (good) ramp.
I appreciate that wayfarers or GP 14s will be in the frame ( though they don't strike me as rowable).
Any other suggestions please?
Click to expand...
When the GP14 was first introduced a large number were fully equipped for rowing (as in "General Purpose") Certainly our first family boat GP 2795 had oars (and an outboard motor hatch). suggest with grandchildren's ages need to take first step which is to get them afloat, but recognise the fact that for much of the time you will be sailing single handed. Have you looked at a Foxer? Very popular on the South Coast for Senior Sailors and can take a crew (in turns)
 
Malabar said:
When the GP14 was first introduced a large number were fully equipped for rowing (as in "General Purpose") Certainly our first family boat GP 2795 had oars (and an outboard motor hatch). suggest with grandchildren's ages need to take first step which is to get them afloat, but recognise the fact that for much of the time you will be sailing single handed. Have you looked at a Foxer? Very popular on the South Coast for Senior Sailors and can take a crew (in turns)
Click to expand...

The GP 14 would certainly fit the bill, my only reservation is they are rather heavy, but have spent many happy hours sailing one.
The Mirror I think is a bit small for 4, but they an be found at reasonable prices so maybe buy two then the grandchildren can have the fun of racing each other.
 
+1 for a GP14, they are solid, stable and easy to sail. I had one when my children were very small for sailing in Poole Harbour and on lakes and we had a lot of fun. I bought an old one for £750, polished it and sold it for £750 five years later
 
pcatterall said:
I ( age 78!) may join my local sailing club but want to get a dinghy to play/cruise rather than race. I hope that my grandchildren 16,14 1nd 4 might get the bug and enlist on some of the courses, my son (45) is also keen.
I live very close to the lake and would be tempted just to go for a row or gentle sail.
So we are looking for a dinghy that rows and sails, can carry 4 people and be launched from a (good) ramp.
I appreciate that wayfarers or GP 14s will be in the frame ( though they don't strike me as rowable).
Any other suggestions please?
Click to expand...
I would suggest you check what boat is most popular at the club, that way you are more likely to get help and advice from other members [whether you want it or not].
I suspect a problem you will have is that teenagers learn very quickly and a boat that suits our age will be deadly boring to them. My grand daughters, 16 & 20 will come with me if it's blowing hard, but would much prefer to be sailing a Whizzbang Kamikhase 14 with their friends.
 
I had a Laser 13 for the purposes you describe, described as a cruising dinghy ,very durable , easy to rig, launch and sail, 2 piece mast, flotation panel in the top of the mainsail and roller furling head sail. It had proper oars and an outboard bracket plus a big dry locker forward large enough for a small outboard. It was designed to need minimum maintenance but there was a thwart that you needed to varnish occasionally. It cost me close to £2k at the time but I had no trouble getting that back when I eventually sold it. Did not need the money so still wondering why I did.
 
I'd suggest a Heron. Easy to sail 4-up if two are smaller people, designed for two, but also single-handleable. Rows well and can take an outboard. I don't know how it stacks up against other dinghies, but it's certainly fun to sail, especially single-handed!
 
I'd suggest an Enterprise, GP14 or Wayfarer as your grandchildren are likely to be about 5'9" tall at their ages.

Once you've discovered sails (or an engine) very few bother with rowing unless you're really keen, in which case buy a nice rowing boat too.
 
Realistically, how often are the teenagers going to come sailing with you?
Something like a Wayfarer would be wanted for sailing with 4 adult sized people. Great for that, but massively too heavy for you to want to launch and retrieve for solo sails - which will probably turn out to be most common!
And the teenagers will find a Wayfarer very dull, and if get interested in sailing will want to sail Toppers, Laser or something faster so will be off doing their own thing with their own age group.

How much dinghy sailing have you done previously? If happy to right after a capsize, an Enterprise size boat would do most, but need to be nimble solo in a breeze. Laser 2000 modern multi purpose boat but more expensive.

Otherwise a Mirror or Heron would get more use solo and might be best option.
Can you borrow a club boat to take 4 out occasionally?
 
Thanks all. was surprised to hear that the mirror could accommodate 4 ! as my mates mirror feels crowded with 2 adults.
I am not so sure about my strength in righting a capsize as over the last year I have found my strength disappearing rapidly, I can build up my upper body strength but loose it very rapidly if I don't exercise !!
Perhaps the GP 14 is the best compromise?
 
A Mirror won't hold 4 adults except paddling (though we often sailed with 5 when 3 kids very small).
Check weight of GP14 and steepness of slipway. Ideally find a club member with one and try to pull out solo.
Then you will probably go and buy something lighter like the Mirror or Heron which is so much easier to handle on the slipway and therefore might get used more :-)
 
pcatterall said:
Thanks all. was surprised to hear that the mirror could accommodate 4 ! as my mates mirror feels crowded with 2 adults.
I am not so sure about my strength in righting a capsize as over the last year I have found my strength disappearing rapidly, I can build up my upper body strength but loose it very rapidly if I don't exercise !!
Perhaps the GP 14 is the best compromise?
Click to expand...
A Heron will certainly take 4. We had one from when I was a toddler up to being a teenager, and we only once capsized it in all that time - and that was when my mum and dad failed to get the boom properly attached and tried to correct it under way. No doubt they can be capsized if racing flat out, but if just sailing for fun, it should always be easy enough to avoid getting near that point of no return. They are really two-handed boats, but I never had any problem sailing ours single-handed!

I think that our attitude to capsizing in the 60s was very different to that of modern dinghy sailors. If we got wet, we were going to be cold and wet for the rest of the day - wet or dry suits weren't common! So, unless you were an out-and-out racer, you avoided capsizing like the plague. You luffed up or eased the sheet as soon as the boat got anywhere near going over - indeed, you ALWAYS held the main-sheet on the principle that if it got too much to hold, you were over-powered.
 
The Enterprise I had had oars and rowlocks, used occasionally. A lot lighter than a Wayfarer. Laser 2000 totally unsuitable for more than two, also a tendency to want to invert after capsize: you had to be quick to get onto the daggerboard to stop it inverting. A Laser 13 is a good option, but pretty rare whilst there are loads of Enterprises around. Also a fair number of GP14s, and what you describe is exactly what they were designed to do - sail, row or motor with a small outboard.

It's much derided, but for a couple of years I had a bermudan rigged (not gunter) Skipper 14, which was also aimed exactly at your usage. I sailed mine singlehanded with added toestraps and self-bailer, and it was surprisingly fast offwind, and was about evens with Enterprises or GP14s round a club race couse. Lost out slightly to windward, some of this due to cheapo sails, but caught up offwind. Only snag was they were pretty flimsily built (hence light and faster than you'd expect) and I doubt if many are still in decent order.
 
jwilson said:
The Enterprise I had had oars and rowlocks, used occasionally. A lot lighter than a Wayfarer. Laser 2000 totally unsuitable for more than two, also a tendency to want to invert after capsize: you had to be quick to get onto the daggerboard to stop it inverting. A Laser 13 is a good option, but pretty rare whilst there are loads of Enterprises around. Also a fair number of GP14s, and what you describe is exactly what they were designed to do - sail, row or motor with a small outboard.

It's much derided, but for a couple of years I had a bermudan rigged (not gunter) Skipper 14, which was also aimed exactly at your usage. I sailed mine singlehanded with added toestraps and self-bailer, and it was surprisingly fast offwind, and was about evens with Enterprises or GP14s round a club race couse. Lost out slightly to windward, some of this due to cheapo sails, but caught up offwind. Only snag was they were pretty flimsily built (hence light and faster than you'd expect) and I doubt if many are still in decent order.
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The various Skipper 14s which a search revealed looked like the sort of thing I could do with some seemed to be in good nick. I will investigate further!
 
pcatterall said:
The various Skipper 14s which a search revealed looked like the sort of thing I could do with some seemed to be in good nick. I will investigate further!
Click to expand...
There were at least three different rigs with increasing sail area on the Skipper 14s, gunter, sleeved sail bermudan, and bermudan with mast track, which was the one I bought new about 50 years ago. I wanted the mast with track to allow the sail to be dropped or reefed, and I put two sets of reef points into the sail. Towed it around the S and SW of the country on it's trailer at weekends and holidays, exploring various places. Sometimes also when working away took it with me to sail in the evenings. I chose it deliberately over other more conventional dinghies as it was very light and the hull itself looked fast, and then modified it slightly (self-bailer, toestraps). I also bought a Seagull 40 outboard, that would stow in the stern locker, but virtually never used it on the Skipper.

When I sold it I bought a small cruiser, but then missed the ability to quickly go for a sail in the evenings when working so bought a Mirror that I car-topped. A Mirror is really only OK for one adult.
 
Having had a Mirror, Heron, Enterprise and GP 14, if I were embarking on such a venture, I would go for the Heron. It is heavier than a Mirror but more comfortable with floorboards and a more solid structure and ticks most of the boxes unless you are 4 up. GP is a heavy beast at the best of times especially when trying to right a single handed capsize. Enterprise is potentially the most fun with the grandkids, great to race but you need to be nimble in a blow.
I’d advise caution in basing your decision on the involvement of others. Kids and even 45 yo sons are fickle and undoubtedly you will be on your own after the initial novelty wears off.
 
Gull, is a small wayfarer and capable of carrying 4 adults much more comfortably than the Mirror, similar to the Heron and lots of options from old wooden and early fiberglass do uppers to the lovely current Hartley version £££££. We used a MK3 one as a sailing tender for 4 years, rowing, sailing and motoring and not too heavy to pull up the beach like some of the larger sailing dinghy.
 
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