FAME Diesel and small fuel lines?

Have you poured any additives into your 400 litre fuel tank? I’m thinking something like Sure Shot which, allegedly, makes water miscible in the fuel and allows it to go through a Diesel engine may not work in a Diesel heater, particularly if the fuel is old.
Perhaps adding paraffin to your Diesel might help.
 
Ian_Edwards said:
That's all most correct, we have had 2 short season, with around 200L added in 2020 and 2021.
But why do both my main engine and generator run happily on it?
And why will the new Eber fire up on it, but only run for a relatively short period of time?
I'm going to try connecting a 5L can of fresh diesel in place of the parraffin today, and test that theory.
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I have heard exactly the same experience with other heaters. They can be more particular than engines. A separate new supply should solve it.
 
Bru said:
Have I got this right ... It's a 400l tank and the diesel in that tank is "white" diesel with FAME which has been in the tank since before lockdown?
If that's the case, there's your problem (almost certainly at any rate)
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It may well be the cause but it seems there are some very picky Ebers around, some needing new fuel whereas some run on any old rubbish. Last time we topped our tank off was 2019 and some of the content will be 2 or 3 years older, all white road diesel. Engine starts and runs fine but Eber which hadn't been used for 12 months failed first time and then on second attempt blew a smoke screen for a few minutes before clearing. Starts and runs normally since.
 
As mentioned , diesel does not have the shelf life it used to have due to the bio diesel (FAME) content which is most likely present in red diesel exactly the same as white diesel . I have read anything longer than 6 months and the fuel will start to degrade . Also as said it seems engines are more tolerant than heaters .
I am using fuel additives but not really sure whether they are a great benefit .
 
I've thought of adding parraffin, or even petrol to the diesel. Truck driver use to add petrol up to 10% in the winter to stop it freezing, until "antifreez" addative were include in the blend.
I'm a bit reluctant to add either, partly because to make any significant difference, it would be a lot of petrol or parraffin, 10% of 400L is 40L, and I guess I'd have add about 20L to make any significant difference.
The Eber started this morning on diesel and ran for about 1 hour !!
I'm really struggling to understand what's going on.
 
I have had 2 Ebers on vans and 1 on a boat and when they run they are absolutely stunning but if you get one that seems to have issues....

400L is a lot of diesel, I think if it was me and I was living on the boat at this time of year I would simply fit a secondary tank with paraffin and run it so you have some heating, you could when you have some time to fiddle then empty and decant some of your diesel into the secondary tank and see if it still runs.

Just out of interest
When was your diesel tank last cleaned ?
What is the boat engine on board ?
Where does the eber pull the diesel from in the install, from bottom of the tank, fuel line etc ?
 
The diesel tank was replaced 3 years ago, so clean at that point.
Engine Yanmar 4JH4E 50 'ish bhp, can remember the exact figure.
Genersator Whisperpower Piccolo 5
All running on the same tank and same stand pipe, will a manifold with 3 tees, each with a shut off valve.
Heater Hydronic 10
The boat is a Southerly 46, designed for long distance cruising, crossing the Atlantic and that sort of thing.
Fitting another tank is attractive, but not easy to do, I could have fuel in that at 5% Vat. I don't use the engine that much, but the generator runs most days and in spring and the back end of the year the heater is used morning and evening I live on board 120+ days a year.
It's a 2007 boat, I've had for 10 years.
No problems with the Hydronic 10 until late last year. I thought I'd fix it with a new heater, but that didn't work.
Some thing must have change in the installation or the fuel. I haven't change the installation, not deliberately.
 
Ian_Edwards said:
But why do both my main engine and generator run happily on it?
And why will the new Eber fire up on it, but only run for a relatively short period of time?.
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The engine and the generator are compression ignition internal combustion engines, the heater isn't

Diesel heaters are notoriously fussy about fuel quality. Eberspachers are notoriously fussy by diesel heater standards!

All the symptoms and diagnostic efforts described suggest fuel degradation as the problem and I'd be reluctant to continue trying to run the heater on the main tank until the current stock of fuel has been used or replaced for fear of turning an intermittent problem into a permanent one
 
Ian_Edwards said:
The diesel tank was replaced 3 years ago, so clean at that point.
Engine Yanmar 4JH4E 50 'ish bhp, can remember the exact figure.
Genersator Whisperpower Piccolo 5
All running on the same tank and same stand pipe, will a manifold with 3 tees, each with a shut off valve.
Heater Hydronic 10
The boat is a Southerly 46, designed for long distance cruising, crossing the Atlantic and that sort of thing.
Fitting another tank is attractive, but not easy to do, I could have fuel in that at 5% Vat. I don't use the engine that much, but the generator runs most days and in spring and the back end of the year the heater is used morning and evening I live on board 120+ days a year.
It's a 2007 boat, I've had for 10 years.
No problems with the Hydronic 10 until late last year. I thought I'd fix it with a new heater, but that didn't work.
Some thing must have change in the installation or the fuel. I haven't change the installation, not deliberately.
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So its not an old donk of an engine and it doesnt sound like a blocked fuel pick up so it does sound like fuel quality so i reckon the 2nd tank option is what i would go with even if it was a 5/10lt plastic can strapped down somewhere sensible and use that till you are able to do a major refuel with fresh stuff

Edit, I agree with Bru, I keep ours run up regularly, even in the summer they can be used to dry out wet weather gear on board for the following day. Once they play up they can be a real PITA dont give it an excuse !!
 
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Ian_Edwards said:
All running on the same tank and same stand pipe, will a manifold with 3 tees, each with a shut off valve.
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Just a thought ... does the problem occur with the other two feeds shut off?

I once had an issue with a vehicle installation when the engine wasn't running with the fuel feed to the heater pulling all the fuel out of the line to the engine and then airlocking instead of picking up from the tank (unfortunately, I don't know what the cure was, if any, as we traced the fault in some spare time at a festival we were working at! It wasn't my vehicle and the owner intended to take it back to the installers for rectification)
 
Update on the Eberspacher saga.
I've just completed the 135mile delivery trip from Ardrossan to Linnhe.
I tried starting the Eberspacher whilst running the Yanmar engine, more in hope than anything else, when the wind died between Machrihanish and Gigha, it was cold wet and dark. To my surprise it fired up immediately and ran for over 3hrs until I dropped anchor in the bay at Gigha. It ran for another 30min or so, then stopped. It still had at least another 30mins on the timer.
Just to recap, the tank has a single standpipe, with manifold with 3 connections engine, generator and Eberspacher.
The Eberspacher will run continuously off the battery when I replace the tank supply with a can of paraffin, ie no standpipe in the system.
It won't run from the standpipe, from the battery, shore supply or generator. So that seems to rule out a 12v problem.
It will run from the standpipe if the main engine is running.
This seems strange to me, because it is competing with a more powerful pump.
The only thing I can think of, is that the main engine ensures that the manifold is full of fuel, and that the Eberspacher pump on its own can't draw enough fuel up the standpipe.
Options ?
The diameter of the standpipe is to big?
There's is a small air leak, which the Yanmar can overcome, but the Eberspacher can't.
I've checked all the connection on the manifold, and they all look good, they are made up with high temperature silicone, but I think there maybe a compression fitting on the inside of the tank.
Any other options?
At the moment a separate standpipe seems like possible solution, one with a much smaller ID.
I've been trying to avoid this, it's just another potential leak.
But why did it run ok, in this configuration for years?
 
Its a fun one, so the only things that have changed are the Eber, a new one and the diesel left to stand due to covid so not as fresh as otherwise it would normally be.
With you using the engine it will be circulating the the diesel via the return pipe, that is a big tank but i would assume the returned diesel will be warm would that be enough to eventually warm the diesel tank which would potentially thin the fuel which could make it easier for your Eber pump ? did you replace the pump with the new one ? might it be worth swapping pumps they have been known to be sticky
 
is heating oil a better choice for heaters instead of diesel?
I've fitted a Webasto water heater ( not commissioned yet) and will be using a new tank.
Does heating oil stand in a tank and last better than diesel.?
with FAME getting added to diesel now these issues are getting more and more common.
 
Falcoron said:
is heating oil a better choice for heaters instead of diesel?
I've fitted a Webasto water heater ( not commissioned yet) and will be using a new tank.
Does heating oil stand in a tank and last better than diesel.?
with FAME getting added to diesel now these issues are getting more and more common.
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Why carry more types of fuel than needed?
 
Falcoron said:
is heating oil a better choice for heaters instead of diesel?
I've fitted a Webasto water heater ( not commissioned yet) and will be using a new tank.
Does heating oil stand in a tank and last better than diesel.?
with FAME getting added to diesel now these issues are getting more and more common.
Click to expand...

How big is the tank you are installing for your heater, it should only need about 1/3 L per hour so if only a small tank I would stick with diesel
 
or to look at it another way that's 56l for a week on board, at which point small tanks start to look less desireable!
 
Sandy said:
Why carry more types of fuel than needed?
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EMMMM!
because diesel is wrecking heaters because of FAME! Thats the subject of the thread. So is heating oil better for the heater than diesel with FAME?
That was my question.

I don't see it as a major inconvenience to carry fuel to the boat once in a while, but stripping a heater down because of fatty deposits? Yes that is a major concern. But each to their own.
 
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I changed to kerosene some years ago, before fame was an issue. The red diesel that my supplier sells is still high sulfur, which was badly affecting my Eberspacher. I installed a separate tank (20 litre plastic container).
 
NormanS said:
I changed to kerosene some years ago, before fame was an issue. The red diesel that my supplier sells is still high sulfur, which was badly affecting my Eberspacher. I installed a separate tank (20 litre plastic container).
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Thanks NormanS
Hard to get a straight answer sometimes!

I have a good storage space so could put in a large tank if needed, but I'll go for a 30ltr I have been looking at and that will do me.
I don't do much winter boating, so the heater wont be used a lot apart from heating water when we are moored up away from shore power.

thanks again for your input.
 
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