Fairline Squadron 58, Volvo D12-715 evc- experiences?

MapisM said:
I know I reached an agreement with jfm based on life length, but since you insist:
Can you explain me how on earth you can pull a bow line with that winch, and once tightened as hell unwind it from the winch drum and lock it on the cleat without losing its tension
I already accepted that you can (obviously!) use the winch and leave the line on it once tightened, but that ain't kosher, in my books.
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mm, you tighten the line on the capstan then put your foot and all your weight on that line just as it exits the fairlead. This grips the line onto an edge in the Grp near the fairlead. Then just cleat the loose end of the line, then remove your foot.
Same on s78 btw.
I know lots say it, but I can’t see an engineering reason why leaving a line on a drum causes problems.
 
jfm said:
mm, you tighten the line on the capstan then put your foot and all your weight on that line just as it exits the fairlead. This grips the line onto an edge in the Grp near the fairlead. Then just cleat the loose end of the line, then remove your foot.
Same on s78 btw.
I know lots say it, but I can’t see an engineering reason why leaving a line on a drum causes problems.
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I'm not sure that pulling a bow line (or not) would worry me.
The only time I can think of having to do that would be when stern berthing - in which case, thats what the stern winches are for.

More importantly, I would fit a handheld anchor winch control - from the pic above, I don't think you could see the anchor chain during anchor recovery and still keep your foot on the deck switches.
Either a handheld switch on a curly wire or a wireless control would allow you to lean over the bow whilst recovering the anchor.
IMO, recovering from the helm positions isn't a good idea - too much strain on the winch - the boat will always skew away from the direction of the anchor.
Yes, it is possible but why put your kit under unnecessary strain.
We always recover our anchor from the foredeck.
 
jfm said:
mm, you tighten the line on the capstan then put your foot and all your weight on that line just as it exits the fairlead. This grips the line onto an edge in the Grp near the fairlead. Then just cleat the loose end of the line, then remove your foot.
Same on s78 btw.
I know lots say it, but I can’t see an engineering reason why leaving a line on a drum causes problems.
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Fairenuff, but better your (bare!) foot than mine! :D :p

On the engineering point, I'm also unsure of why several winch producers recommend to not do that in their manuals, but as a matter of fact, they do.
I dislike doing that simply because I prefer to leave the winch available just in case, rather than for any engineering reason.
All a bit academic anyway - as I said I don't use the bow winch - but that applies to stern winches too. :encouragement:
 
All the above aside, just to go back to TrondS point: I think you're the only one who can judge those differences between those two boats, after seeing them in flesh.
But fwiw, I recall to have read here in the asylum that the performance difference between the two engines is practically irrelevant, in the Sq58.
Surely others with first hand experience will be able to confirm or correct as appropriate.
 
I will get a chance to see the 800hp boat in about a week. It appears that one is best maintained of the two, based on the info I have received so far.
And I agree, the performance differences between the 715hp and 800hp boats, is probably minor. That is not the "buy or not buy" factor.

.......
It's a good discussion of the anchoring use/techniques you guys have had in the last posts here. I see that as relevant both for this thread and in general. Thanks!
 
Bigger engines are usually more useful.

In this case there is only 85hp a side in it.

I have the 715 and it will do 32 kts ( I think from memory I rarely try ) and we find 18-20 knots a nice comfortable speed where people can move about.

Fuel consumption per nm is relatively flat until you get above 28kts or so hence it has noting to do with economy and all to do with a nice ride to the next anchorage.

They are great boats. I am at the airport now I’m the way to mine !
 
jrudge said:
In this case there is only 85hp a side in it.
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Nope J, the difference is actually just 60 each.
Don't ask me why VP labelled as "D12-800" an engine which according to their own specs has a 775hp output, as opposed to the "D12-715" which is indeed a 715hp engine.
But as a matter of fact, that's what they did.

Btw, they further elevated these marketing tricks to a whole new level when they launched the IPS , but that's another story.
 
An cam is vital ! So much simpler and no shouting to explain what the anchor is up to especially if it gets stuck !

Consumption 18kts 1600 rpm 130 lph

The boat had just been relaunched which was the last photo I took of the plotter showing consumption.

8 kts. 30 lph. Bear in mind planning boats roll when going slow unless sea is flat

Consumption rises signfiantly when props fouled. Hull impacts of course but props really kick it in the teeth and are well worth 30 mins with your snorkel. An earlier pic showed 160 lph at 18 kts with dirty hull etc and it only got worse from then on. Temps rise also.

Cost benefit is marginal as in Mallorca lift and foul is about e3500 !
 
jrudge said:
Consumption rises signfiantly when props fouled. Hull impacts of course but props really kick it in the teeth and are well worth 30 mins with your snorkel. An earlier pic showed 160 lph at 18 kts with dirty hull etc and it only got worse from then on. Temps rise also.
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Beware of rising temps J, because that shouldn't happen, theoretically.
I mean, it makes perfect sense that with fouled props the engines must run harder (=higher load and hp output) at any given rpm, burning more fuel.
And that means more heat to dissipate.
But the heat exchangers should be man enough to cope with the max heat that the engines can generate, which is at full load and max rpm.
Below that, they should never struggle to do their job.
In other words, the closed cooling liquid should stay constant, courtesy of the thermostat opening and closing as required.
So, if you see the temps rising while cruising at 18kts, I would suspect that the heat exchangers might be clogged, at least to some extent...
 
Thank you, for the consumption numbers, jrudge.
As MapisM said, the temperature shouldn't increase, even with dirty props or hull.
Long time since you checked/ cleaned the heat exchangers, or maybe the check the impellers? Sounds like you might not get the normal water flow.
 
MapisM said:
Beware of rising temps J, because that shouldn't happen, theoretically.
I mean, it makes perfect sense that with fouled props the engines must run harder (=higher load and hp output) at any given rpm, burning more fuel.
And that means more heat to dissipate.
But the heat exchangers should be man enough to cope with the max heat that the engines can generate, which is at full load and max rpm.
Below that, they should never struggle to do their job.
In other words, the closed cooling liquid should stay constant, courtesy of the thermostat opening and closing as required.
So, if you see the temps rising while cruising at 18kts, I would suspect that the heat exchangers might be clogged, at least to some extent...
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Exchangers are now clean. The main rise was saw was on a trip to ibiza at about 24/5 knots On the way back having cleaned props temps down and consumption down by 350 l one way
 
No it is all fine.

The exhangers were slightly clogged which is now done.

Regardless fouling = lots more fuel = more heat due to loading. If all boats can get rid of the excess or not I don’t know.
 
jrudge said:
No it is all fine.

The exhangers were slightly clogged which is now done.

Regardless fouling = lots more fuel = more heat due to loading. If all boats can get rid of the excess or not I don’t know.
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Picking up on the heat point ^^^^^ .
Mine ( 13 L straight 6 MANs of 700 Hp ) are similar size and configuration as the popular D12 ,
I ve mentioned this before they run on the plane @ 85 in the summer even near WOT , which like Jrudge I don’t go there hardly .Infact 1800 rpm is about the most I go as it’s fast enough around 30 knots .
But when off the plane they cool so D speed 8 knots 82 and tick over marina movements even are at 79 by the time I,am ready to switch off after sorting the lines etc .

So there’s obviously some head room on the cooling system or it’s configured for 1600-2150 rpm .
Below theses rpms it’s always lower the jacket temp .
Fortunately I have EGTs the real indicator of heat build up .
Tend to run mid 500 degrees so 560 to 580 if fouled at under 1800 rpm .
Although seen 630 at WOT on a fresh hull that’s 2150 .

Each engines a bit different different regarding EGT ,s but reading around the subject it’s considered best in terms of longevity to stay under 600 .

I ve always said optimum cruise in the real world should be 6/8 knots off WOT often quoted speed or lower .when planing .

I ,am wary of boats that need to go north of 2000 rpm with cylinder sizes of 2 L and above to attain any reasonable planing speed .
Ideally for a 2L + per pot under 1900 or better around 1800 .Talking 4 T engines here btw .So disregarding 2T , DD :)

Just a thought.
So at the sea trail set them at 1800 / 1900 and that’s your max cruise really .
 
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Good to hear all is working as it should.
Yes, fouling is a serious speed brake.

Anyway, seems like my Fairline dream/project died before it started today. Norwegian banks for some reason don't give loans to boats older than 10 years, even though I could easily have handled the loan. Bummer!
A few banks even confirmed that I could easily get a loan for a 9,9 year old "wreck," but not for a 10,1 (or 13 year old in my case) boat in mint condition. Logic??

But thanks to all of you for all the valuable feedback and information you provided. Much appreciated!
 
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