Fairline Squadron 58, Volvo D12-715 evc- experiences?

[Hurricane]

I like the squaddie 58 - a classic if ever there was one.
But the D12 can get expensive with those exhaust elbows.
I know of two boats with D12s that this season had big bills replacing the exhaust elbows.
So when surveying a boat with D12s, I would look VERY carefully at the exhaust elbows.
That said, 12 years ago, we had a boat with D12s and no problems.
It is just that the D12 design of engine is now getting older so things like exhaust elbows are becoming a problem.
Easily fixable but worth checking - IMO

 

[TrondS]

Hurricane, thanks for the heads up about the exhaust elbows.

 

[jrudge]

I like the squaddie 58 - a classic if ever there was one.
But the D12 can get expensive with those exhaust elbows.
I know of two boats with D12s that this season had big bills replacing the exhaust elbows.
So when surveying a boat with D12s, I would look VERY carefully at the exhaust elbows.
That said, 12 years ago, we had a boat with D12s and no problems.
It is just that the D12 design of engine is now getting older so things like exhaust elbows are becoming a problem.
Easily fixable but worth checking - IMO

They are not expensive.

Port side ( big one ) £950 in stainless.

Stbd is 2 elbows. £600 each.

Fitting is straightforward.

 

[MapisM]

Yes the bow is normal for sq58. It worked fine in my 6 years of ownership and I can’t see what you are unhappy with!
I would rotate the cleats 90 deg if I designed it (and they did on sq78) but it’s a tiny point.

Well, if you would rotate them, and also FL did on other models, then you CAN see what I'm unhappy with, can't you?

Not so irrelevant anyhow, imho.
Also assuming that both the cleats and the deck supporting them are strong enough to withstand transversal instead of longitudinal lines pull (which obviously isn't how cleats are designed to work, anyhow), in the above layout it would have been more logical to just get rid of the fairleads an replace them directly with the cleats.
Besides, I can't for the life of me figure how you could use the winch with bow lines, if you wish to.
Not that I ever did, mind. And IIRC, you also said the same in the past, so I appreciate that this is a bit academic.
But if the drum is totally impractical to use, better not to fit it at all, I reckon...

PS: btw, the Sq58 is very far from being the only boat with wrong cleat orientation - I've seen others with even worse arrangements, also astern.
So, it's not something that would make me rule out a boat in itself.
I'm just surprised that I didn't notice it, having carefully viewed a couple of Sq58 not long ago.
And also one of yours, coming to think of it, but that was quite some years ago, and back then I didn't look at the boat with a potential purchasing interest.

 

[TrondS]

Besides, I can't for the life of me figure how you could use the winch with bow lines, if you wish to.

Didn't notice that until you made me look again at the picture of the bow section.

Has anyone tried using the winch, say with "med mooring?" I guess that could possibly be a challenge?

 

[MapisM]

Don't worry, bow winch is pretty irrelevant for Med mooring.
My last boat had a rather tricky horizontal winch, meant two handle two anchors, and using the winch drum would have been a nightmare, but I never missed it in 17 years of boating. In my current boat, it would be much easier to use it, but I still don't anyway.

In the Med, the best technique is to secure bow lines by hand, leaving a lot of slack in the stern lines, and then tighten the latter as appropriate.
In this sense, stern winches are much more useful, though some folks (not me) just use the engines in reverse.
If while tightening the stern lines you see that the bow lines don't allow you to get as close as you wish to the dock, releasing them a bit is easy peasy (as opposed to tightening them).
In your home berth, the whole maneuver can be further simplified by putting some coloured tape at the appropriate position on the bow lines.
This allows you to secure them at the correct distance right away, and then deal with the stern.

 

[TrondS]

Thank you for the clarification, MapisM!

 

[markc]

Don't worry, bow winch is pretty irrelevant for Med mooring.

I use mine all the time, especially on my home berth - I have 2 lines that stay on the dock with spliced loops that are the perfect length. When mooring, I simply slip these over the cleats then use the bow winch to tighten. Works first time every time with zero adjustment. I tend to use the stern winches when visiting thought, using the method you described

 

[MapisM]

I have 2 lines that stay on the dock with spliced loops that are the perfect length

That's a technique AKA tying the dock to the boat, rather than the other way round!
'Salright anyway, whatever works for you, M. :encouragement:

The point is, you could still do as you do when visiting also in your home berth (with the added bonus of knowing the bow lines position).
So, the bow winch might well be an alternative, but not essential - Q.E.D.

 

[jrudge]

I use the s58. Ow winch sometimes. Usually with very long and thick lines. They have so much weight and sag they seem right until you notice the bow wandering.

Soller and club Nautico palma are the two worst offenders as they put not from 10m to 50m on the same berths. In soller once there was a small fairline on on berth and next door a simply vast galeon style sailing boat.

 

[markc]

That's a technique AKA tying the dock to the boat, rather than the other way round!
'Salright anyway, whatever works for you, M. :encouragement:

The point is, you could still do as you do when visiting also in your home berth (with the added bonus of knowing the bow lines position).
So, the bow winch might well be an alternative, but not essential - Q.E.D.

Useful? Certainly. Essential? Nope. Essential should be reserved for things like ice makers, dishwashers etc!

I too have used the bow winch as Jrudge, with very heavy lines when visiting.

 

[jfm]

Mapism the sq58 bow arrangement and winch work fine for med mooring. If you want to pull in the bowline tight using the winch, you can. I owned 2 of these boats for 6+ med seasons and must have med moored (often with the winch) hundreds of times. I pretty much disagree with every sentence of your post #24. But shall we just agree to disagree because a big thread on this would be super-boring and life is too short?

 

[MapisM]

I use the s58. Ow winch sometimes.

Now you are making me curious, J. Along which path are you passing the line to pull it with the winch?
I mean, unless you can go round the cleat first, before pulling it with the drum (which is what I think you can't do with the above layout), how can you secure the line to the cleat after it's tightened by the winch? Don't you lose the tightening as soon as you unwind the line from the drum?
Alternatively, I guess you might leave the line on the winch and be done with it, but aside from being something I don't like, it can obviously be done for just one line.

 

[MapisM]

I pretty much disagree with every sentence of your post #24. But shall we just agree to disagree because a big thread on this would be super-boring and life is too short?

Fairenuff, as long as you don't disagree also on the very basic physics behind the fact that cleats are designed to withstand longitudinal load...

I'm also struggling to understand how you can disagree with my very first sentence in that post, but hey-ho, yes, life is definitely too short! :encouragement:

 

[Hooligan]

Well I had a 2007 S58 but with the D12 800's. The boat in general was excellent - great layout (particularly the flybridge), bombproof hull which flattened most seas! and my D12 800's were very reliable with me putting around 750 hours on them in 7 years with complete confidence and no issues. Not sure whether there was much difference in terms of reliability and/or suitability to the S58 between the D12 715's and the 800's, but I'm sure other people will have a view.

I bought the aforesaid boat and engine wise it has been absolutely fine. The only issue of any concern was overheating - as mentioned by volvopaul - in both engines above 1700 revs although even below this was running a little high. I acid cleaned the heat exchangers which helped but in the end i removed the heat exchangers and sonically cleaned them which did the trick. So you may want to run the boat and look for this. I actually had a guy from the s58 next door to me as I was in Elba this year come and ask if I had had an overheating issue so I relayed the same thing. i would also go back and look at the waterpumps too which are behind the crew cabin, especially on a 2007. Great boat though with fabulous flybridge and great in rough seas.

 

[Hooligan]

Mapism the sq58 bow arrangement and winch work fine for med mooring. If you want to pull in the bowline tight using the winch, you can. I owned 2 of these boats for 6+ med seasons and must have med moored (often with the winch) hundreds of times. I pretty much disagree with every sentence of your post #24. But shall we just agree to disagree because a big thread on this would be super-boring and life is too short?

Totally agree. Really easy to use the winch which i have done many times, sometimes in very strong winds.

 

[MapisM]

Totally agree. Really easy to use the winch which i have done many times, sometimes in very strong winds.

I know I reached an agreement with jfm based on life length, but since you insist:
Can you explain me how on earth you can pull a bow line with that winch, and once tightened as hell unwind it from the winch drum and lock it on the cleat without losing its tension?
I already accepted that you can (obviously!) use the winch and leave the line on it once tightened, but that ain't kosher, in my books.

 

[Hooligan]

I know I reached an agreement with jfm based on life length, but since you insist:
Can you explain me how on earth you can pull a bow line with that winch, and once tightened as hell unwind it from the winch drum and lock it on the cleat without losing its tension?
I already accepted that you can (obviously!) use the winch and leave the line on it once tightened, but that ain't kosher, in my books.

definitely not wise to leave it on the drum. I attach a line on the bow line i wish to tighten. below the deck line. Once bow line tightened to where i want it I cleat down the small line which holds the bow line where I want it, cleat down the bow line and as they say Bob's your Uncle! Actually it is even easier than this as actually the small line can be held by someone else while the bow line is released. i have done this while in a fairly big wind ie gusting 30 plus in the marina. Poorly explained but hopefully you get my drift.

 

[MapisM]

I certainly do, and I also agree that your method makes the cleat placement/orientation vs. the fairlead and the winch irrelevant, sort of.
My (indeed minor) point was that with better placed cleats you can achieve the same result with no need for a second temporary line. :encouragement:

 

[TrondS]

Last post got deleted when I tried to edit, so here we go again:

I have today been told by my local broker that another SQ58 will soon be offered for sale. This one is a 2006 model, with the D12 800hp engines. (I forgot to ask how many hours the engines and genset have, but I'll find out in a few days).

Looked at pictures of the boat, and it looks even prettier and better maintained than the other SQ58 I linked to in a previous post.

Some differences between the 715hp and 800hp boats:
The 800 has:
Indoors (heated) winter storage and owner has a boat house over the dock.
Port guest cabin is a double bed, instead of twin.
Salon appears better maintained and small improvements in various details.
New covers/canvas for cockpit and flybridge.
Installed satellite domes for tv/internet. -This one is not important for me.