Seastoke
Well-Known Member
Surely if you are a creditor ,you want the company to carry on . The last time I was a creditor I got 10p in the pound.
Fairline Gone Pop
- Thread starter Bigplumbs
- Start date
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
If Arrowbolt just bought 75% of Fairline, who owns the other 25% ?
How does selling the company work ? If sold, the creditors get paid (if enough from the sale price) any any left over goes to Arrowbolt and the 25% owner ?
Or what ?
How does selling the company work ? If sold, the creditors get paid (if enough from the sale price) any any left over goes to Arrowbolt and the 25% owner ?
Or what ?
Grubble
Well-Known Member
Have a look at Searay if you want to see plenty of examples of outdrives, petrol and canvas, plus of course many bigger boats also the option of your other favourite propulsion system - IPS drives.Any boat sale ,new or secondhand , frequently relies on an existing boat being sold further down the food chain.
Outboards are replacing outdrives, hardtops are replacing tent boats.
Fortunately somebody clocked on to the fact that outboards and hardtops were the way forward.
Does anybody serious still build anything over 8m with O******s and "Camping International " covers ?
Ladders also seem in short supply these days on modern flybridges.
The thing is, not all of us want to spend our time at sea in a floating version of a 1970s era caravan.
Bouba
Well-Known Member
Creditors line up in order of who gets what....and HMG is in front of the line
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
He also said on a YT video comment showcasing the Targa 40 and Squadron 58, that they have eight buyers lined up, and one would be very good for the business.
He is a salesman so I would make that two and wishful thinking.
The question was said for him to go and buy the business, which in truth would be very good for Fairline, but he said they Boats.co.uk are boat sellers.
Fairline was selling Broom before it became a boat builder, Sunseeker was selling Scandinavoian and US boats.
Azimut was selling Scandinavian build boats. Ferretti used to sell Sanlorenzo, and Italcraft before becoming a boat builder.
etc etc
The problem for Fairline is that it will be sold overpriced on business it can bring due to its so called brand strength, which will return us to where we are in some years.
I hope I am wrong though.
TK Blue MAX
Well-Known Member
From past experience, the receiver's/ administrators get paid first, then customs and excise ( vat man) , then secured creditor's , staff redundancy's etc, and this why there isn't any thing left for suppliers, who are at the bottom of the pile
westernman
Well-Known Member
Suppliers are above people who ordered a boat.
So not quite bottom. But in général it makes no difference.
So not quite bottom. But in général it makes no difference.
Seastoke
Well-Known Member
Suppliers won’t want them to fold or it could be them next. It would be interesting what Pete had to say.
jakew009
Well-Known Member
Generally products designed by committee end up a total disaster that everyone ends up hating.
Products are best designed by a dictator. Let the committee figure out the logistics afterwards.
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
The company is insolvent, meaning its liabilities are greater than its assets or it can’t pay its debts as they fall due.
Hence the appointment of administrators, the purpose of administration having been variously commented on already.
The administrators may be able to sell the company as a going concern. In which case all the creditors will be happy and there might be something for the existing shareholders.
Alternatively, the company’s assets may be sold and used to pay creditors. There’s a set order of precedence and the rule is not to move down to paying a lower class until the class above is paid in full.
This usually means that high ranking creditors: administrators’ fees, secured lenders etc get paid in full and there’s not much for anyone else.
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potentillaCO32
Well-Known Member
The complicating factor for a sell is that given the current situation the administrator need to make sure that any sale is reasonably likely to result in an improved outcome for creditors than just winding the company up.
Which means the buyer has to have the confidence of current customers with deposits and potential new customers. Which means a buyer with demonstrably deep pockets.
Which with a shrinking uk market, limits the potential buyers. I hope that boats.
.co.uk are right in their assessment of a queue of well minted buyers.
Personally not optimistic but hope to be proven wrong
Which means the buyer has to have the confidence of current customers with deposits and potential new customers. Which means a buyer with demonstrably deep pockets.
Which with a shrinking uk market, limits the potential buyers. I hope that boats.
.co.uk are right in their assessment of a queue of well minted buyers.
Personally not optimistic but hope to be proven wrong
47GC
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know what deal the original investors had when they sold to Arrow? It is quite possible they have an earn out that is protected in certain conditions. I don’t know if this is the case, so every speculation on here is just that, speculation. Time will tell. I’m sure there are buyers in the wings, but do they have the expertise & cash to build back confidence in the brand?
westernman
Well-Known Member
If a company is sold, then the acquirers are liable for all the debt and at least some of the staff, may be the majority are retained.
So if it is a going concern, then the creditors are happy and some of the staff are.
The owners/shareholders might not be happy as the sale price is likely to be very low - i.e. represent the value of the assets - the debt.
Quite often 1 pound is the selling price.
If there is no acquirer who is prepared to buy the company with its debts, then it will be broken up and the assets sold or possibly part of the company sold off separately as a going concern. This is to maximise the value to the creditors. Usually in this kind of scenario, every body loses except for the administrators and lawyers. Also there is usually nothing left for the shareholders. They come last for getting anything at all.
Just occasionally there is a deal with the creditors, where the company restructures the debt and the creditors take a hair cut. The creditors accept such a deal if they think they will be better off this way rather than the company being closed down and any assets sold.
Bouba
Well-Known Member
The post covid optimism must have affected the reasoning of some boat builders into thinking the good times will never end
oldgit
Well-Known Member
100% Agree
Which is exactly why none of the UK boats of the era made the grade when buying the next boat.
On recent voyages on non tidal rivers and to coastal ports during 2024 cannot recall seeing many new Searays, but very notable the number of new small vessels from european builders with proper cabins and outboards. Had look round a couple and very impressed with practicality and the interior space.
petem
Well-Known Member
Which Pete?
Bouba
Well-Known Member
There was a time in the early nineties when a favorable exchange rate caused the importation of cheap American boats....and probably provided the impetus for many forumites to become boat owners
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
IMHO, up to the 80s (ish) only rich folk had yachts.
Then folk with disposable income wanted some of that ‘Howard’s Way’ lifestyle and companies like Fairline catered to that desire with 30-ish foot motorboats being an alternative to similar sized (maybe a bit smaller) sailing boats. You could get your family onboard in something no more uncomfortable than a caravan and impress your friends with the glamour that clung from the days when ‘regular’ folk - mebbe small business owners and the like - looked enviously at a lifestyle that was out of reach.
This worked for perhaps 20 years but, by the 00s plenty of folk had more disposable income and boats that were like caravans were no longer aspirational.
They needed to have glass, lots of glass. They needed bits that stuck out over the water. They needed accessories. They needed more of a wow-factor. And they needed to be bigger and better located, so that no-one would think ‘caravan club’ when you mentioned that you were off to the boat at the weekend.
And boatbuilders built these boats and they had to be bigger and they had to have more luxuries and they cost more.
Too late the builders realised that they were building luxury toys for folk who couldn’t afford them and the folk who could afford them were mighty choosy about which ones they bought.
And there was no way back to the simple 30-footer caravan-boats. Bcs no-one wanted them any longer.
petem
Well-Known Member
Nailed it Martin.
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
Yes but in the detail of things, the British European market was a dot in Sea Ray total sales of like 2k-3k boats year.
In the end you can view history, from the screen you want.
In the nineties some Italian builders stopped making 40 to 60ft, others went pop because British FrPrSs came into the Mediterrean market, with a boat made for the sunshine at half the money and a good quality to value price.
