Fairline Factory Visit (aka Jolly Boys Outing)

[MapisM]

I don,t see it that way and apologies to all if my posts give you that view ,its not my intention.

+1.
In hindsight, I suppose my last post might have appeared harsh to jrudge particularly, as a Sq65 owner...
But while I still think what I said and I said what I think, I agree with him: based on what has been reported, yes, "wow that's an achievement" definitely is an appropriate way to say it all! :encouragement:

 

[MapisM]

and one is between boats

Ah, but! Why do I have a funny feeling that he's the one with more rose tints...?
...sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[rafiki_]

Ah, but! Why do I have a funny feeling that he's the one with more rose tints...?
...sorry, couldn't resist.

Paulo, he is for turning. Spent a couple of hours on Rafiki��

 

[MapisM]

Wow, glad to hear that. I'm sure he would really enjoy a Rafiki sistership! :encouragement:
...or are you considering to sell her to him, and move to something else?
Though that would be for another thread, of course.

 

[rafiki_]

Wow, glad to hear that. I'm sure he would really enjoy a Rafiki sistership! :encouragement:
...or are you considering to sell her to him, and move to something else?
Though that would be for another thread, of course.

Rafiki is not for sale. Pete (and lady wife) came to see what he had been missing. He is narrowing down his options.

 

[petem]

Ah, but! Why do I have a funny feeling that he's the one with more rose tints...?
...sorry, couldn't resist.

That's ok P, I prefer to think of myself as optimistic rather than having rose tinted spectacles. But only time will tell....

 

[petem]

Rafiki is not for sale. Pete (and lady wife) came to see what he had been missing. He is narrowing down his options.

Indeed I am . I'd love a Ph40 but an AZ39 would be a great alternative.

Interestingly, Karl Gilding owns a Goldfish in the Baldricks. I haven't managed to find out what boats the Russian owners run but I do know they're not FL owners, yet.

 

[henryf]

It would be nice to be honest if the forum said wow that's an achievement rather than rolling out old arguments of why don't they copy the loss making sunseeker and princess strategy !

I'm afraid that's the harsh reality of building boats. Nobody gets prizes for just building a boat. Prizes and customers go to exceptional design and innovation. At this point all we have seen is a resumption of boat building. I too have heard from the horses mouth stories of over priced IT equipment, premium rents charged by in house landlords and horrific design errors made for the sake of £15,000. All that is easy to fix so there is a genuine future, it isn't just business as usual. A line has been drawn.

The new Fairline is enthusiastic, by all accounts well funded and able to offer bank guarantees to those of a nervous disposition. But we need to see these new designs in the flesh and that will take time so, like Illusion, I'm happy to sit back and reserve judgement. I don't see anything which merits great praise just yet but I'm hoping to at some point in the future.

Just over a year ago I typed an optimistic post on here following the Swanwick show. I had talked about the 53 and it looked great on paper. The top brass were very enthusiastic. I wanted it to work because it would give me another option aside from Princess and I have said several times the P52 isn't in my humble opinion P's finest hour. To be fair to Princess it's still great when compared to what's out there but I feel some opportunities were missed. There was scope for someone to dive in and score an achievable goal. The sad reality at Southampton took 90 seconds to appraise and left me in little doubt that the end was nigh.

We've been here before, people have come in with a lot more money than the current owners and still things have failed so forgive us if we aren't jumping for joy just yet. I hope desperately that they find the winning formula and build a boat which has me beating a path to Oundle. As an end user choice can only be a good thing and if it doesn't break the bank so much the better. But let us not forget how strong the opposition is. There are some fantastic boats out there and that's the golden question, what are Fairline going to pull out of the hat which makes me say wow, that's an achievement ?

I look forward to typing those words on this forum......


Henry

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

There are some fantastic boats out there and that's the golden question, what are Fairline going to pull out of the hat which makes me say wow, that's an achievement ?

Henry, give them a chance. If they can bring to market the designs we saw yesterday, then I pretty much guarantee you will be saying wow

 

[rafiki_]

I didn't read Pete's original post as anything other than a factual summary of our mtg yesterday. He wasn't asking for praise, and there was certainly no fawning from either side. We got some very interesting insight into what was happening during the darker days of the business demise, including some of the decisions made on the 53 that just seem crazy to us. However, the business had run out of cash, and with no additional funding, difficult, but poor decisions were made. Those present are unable to discuss the new product plans, however, I'm sure the mobo press will be apprised sooner rather than later, and we can have another discussion on here, with the inevitable handbags.

 

[MapisM]

that's the golden question, what are Fairline going to pull out of the hat which makes me say wow, that's an achievement ?

Time will tell, I suppose.
But in the meantime, it's hard to deny that what we are reading now inspires much more confidence, compared to what we were discussing back in the days of the BC/WB farce.
I'm still wondering why that deal is not (yet?) under investigation... :ambivalence:

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'm still wondering why that deal is not (yet?) under investigation... :ambivalence:

We're not a socialist country like Italy, Mapism

 

[MapisM]

We're not a socialist country like Italy, Mapism

Aaah, but!
The most appropriate definition of socialism I've ever heard is that it's a great idea, but it doesn't work for one single reason:
it doesn't reward merits, as opposed to capitalism, which is flawed in more ways than one, but definitely does.
Imho, not investigating the BC/WB deal is more akin to rewarding crooks, rather than merits.

 

[petem]

I didn't read Pete's original post as anything other than a factual summary of our mtg yesterday. He wasn't asking for praise, and there was certainly no fawning from either side. We got some very interesting insight into what was happening during the darker days of the business demise, including some of the decisions made on the 53 that just seem crazy to us. However, the business had run out of cash, and with no additional funding, difficult, but poor decisions were made. Those present are unable to discuss the new product plans, however, I'm sure the mobo press will be apprised sooner rather than later, and we can have another discussion on here, with the inevitable handbags.

Unfortunately I can't do fawning. Perhaps I might have been more successful career wise if I did (unfortunately where I work it seems to be rewarded). I'd rather have integrity. Hey ho!

 

[rafiki_]

Unfortunately I can't do fawning. Perhaps I might have been more successful career wise if I did (unfortunately where I work it seems to be rewarded). I'd rather have integrity. Hey ho!

Beautifully said Pete............................er........................

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Aaah, but!
The most appropriate definition of socialism I've ever heard is that it's a great idea, but it doesn't work for one single reason:
it doesn't reward merits, as opposed to capitalism, which is flawed in more ways than one, but definitely does.
Imho, not investigating the BC/WB deal is more akin to rewarding crooks, rather than merits.

Yes the problem with capitalism is that sometimes the system allows crooked people to give capitalism a bad name. On the other hand, if there was a police or Dti investigation into the BC/WB deal going on right now then every investor would have run a mile from the company and Fairline would be finished. As it was, the system has eventually produced the right result in that it has allowed new, hopefully serious, investors to buy the assets of the failed company and start again with the result that 100 people have jobs and the Fairline name lives on

 

[benjenbav]

I've read this thread with interest and it's great to think that these guys are trying to make a real go of building boats. I hope they will succeed but I am sure that there is much that they will have to overcome on the way.

 

[jrudge]

+1.
In hindsight, I suppose my last post might have appeared harsh to jrudge particularly, as a Sq65 owner...
But while I still think what I said and I said what I think, I agree with him: based on what has been reported, yes, "wow that's an achievement" definitely is an appropriate way to say it all! :encouragement:

My views are genuinely nothing to do with owning one.

A group of guys ( with a wealth backer to be honest) are in my view doing all the right things. Criticising ( constructive or otherwise) is always easy from a distance. Many of us have a "well they should have done that" . Post my visit did I think they were doing the right thing ( and better than I would do it - not that I proclaim to be able to run a manufacturing business) I did.

The decision early on to go for a redesign across the board is 100% the right thing to do ... but it takes some balls - not to mention cash - to actually do that.

Now will they succeed etc, is the long term strategy perfect and so on - well time will tell. Should they go bigger - well personally i dont think so, but lets say they did - the increased cash required and risk is huge. Maybe once they have a new line and are making money they will do just that - none of us know and I doubt they do are the moment.

My dad was a lotus dealer. For decades they were a niche seller - then the Elan came along and the took several hundred £1000 deposits at the motor show.

The right product at the right price sells.

Fairline have a unique position of having clear decks. They have a less favourable unique position of having nil cashflow until they sell boats - so lets hope they deliver on their plans.

 

[MapisM]

if there was a police or Dti investigation into the BC/WB deal going on right now then every investor would have run a mile from the company and Fairline would be finished

I can't see why, in principle.
As was previously debated, it wouldn't be fair (and there's no legal basis for that) to expect new FL to take charge of previous debts etc.
By the same token, even assuming that the BC/WB farce was only stood up to allow BC to execute a privileged charge on the old company (which is rather obvious for all I know, but of course that's just my opinion - though as I recall there was someone involved in securities who said that should something similar happen in their business, they would prepare tea and biscuits right away, awaiting the inspectors!), I can't see why the new FL should be affected.
In a sense, it's rather the opposite: if a court would decide that the charge executed in favour of BC before dumping the company to WB is void, other stakeholders would benefit from higher residual proceedings.

That said, also public image could be affected, somehow.
In this respect, I see your point, and I don't disagree that such investigation might reflect negatively also on new FL, regardless of whether there's a logical basis for that or not...

 

[MapisM]

My views are genuinely nothing to do with owning one.

Yep, I had no doubt about that. And I would love a Sq65, btw.
Back in the 60s, I would have rather paid a deposit for an Alfa Romeo spider than for a Lotus Elan, but there's no denying that the Elan was a great car! :encouragement: