Fairline Boats purchased

[henryf]

Is part of the problem that it is the dealers rather than the manufacturers who make contact with customers?

In my case it's Princess Motor Yacht Sales, not Princess. For the past few years Fairline have in effect been Essex / Boats Co and it is they who have handled customer contact. Obviously their customer base will now be directed towards Princess.

I don't know what data base if any the new Fairline have.

Henry

 

[admillington]

Is part of the problem that it is the dealers rather than the manufacturers who make contact with customers?

In my case it's Princess Motor Yacht Sales, not Princess. For the past few years Fairline have in effect been Essex / Boats Co and it is they who have handled customer contact. Obviously their customer base will now be directed towards Princess.

I don't know what data base if any the new Fairline have.

Henry

There was a warranty form that went back to the factory, who then issued a warranty certificate directly so there should have the data. Dealer or manufacturer - someone needs to start selling or just give up and leave it a clear playing field for BCU.


Princess were very clever appointing them - they deserve to win.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Princess were very cleaver appointing them - they deserve to win.

Yes a good dealer is worth his weight in gold; at least thats what I tell the manufacturers my business represents Fairline should have tried a lot harder to keep BCU. You can't buy the selling experience they have

 

[paul salliss]

Yes a good dealer is worth his weight in gold; at least thats what I tell the manufacturers my business represents Fairline should have tried a lot harder to keep BCU. You can't buy the selling experience they have

Do you know for a fact that they did not try hard to keep them?

 

[aquapower]

Yes a good dealer is worth his weight in gold; at least thats what I tell the manufacturers my business represents Fairline should have tried a lot harder to keep BCU. You can't buy the selling experience they have

How much longer could they have kept selling new stock boats at silly low prices? It all comes to an end at some point, how many boats would they have sold at retail price?

 

[stelican]

How much longer could they have kept selling new stock boats at silly low prices? It all comes to an end at some point, how many boats would they have sold at retail price?

And of course effed up the used Fairline values

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Do you know for a fact that they did not try hard to keep them?

Nope but whatever they did or didn't do, it failed and Fairline have history of losing dealers too. It wasn't that long ago that they lost B A Peters. In my experience there are manufacturers out there who are arrogant enough to believe that their products are so good they sell themselves. Usually those manufacturers learn the hard way

 

[paul salliss]

Nope but whatever they did or didn't do, it failed and Fairline have history of losing dealers too. It wasn't that long ago that they lost B A Peters. In my experience there are manufacturers out there who are arrogant enough to believe that their products are so good they sell themselves. Usually those manufacturers learn the hard way

Exactly - unless people work for Fairline or Boats. Co then to me this is just 52 pages of conjecture, I bet that people in these two companies must read this stuff and be rolling their eyes or laughing.
That's not to say that I don't care, I hope Fairline make a good come back for the sake of the staff and employees more than anything else

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

I think even if they did all to keep them, they would eventually would have lost due to very little product development from Fairline in the last five - six years.

That is what I think happened in reality.

OTOH then you had Princess who was taunting Essex and was producing five new models each year in the last five years. Cannot blame Essex really, you cannot say no forever.

 

[MapisM]

I bet that people in these two companies must read this stuff and be rolling their eyes or laughing.

I'd rather bet that they have - as opposed to ourselves - more compelling things to take care of, other than reading forums.
And if they actually do in their spare time, I'm rather skeptic that they are laughing so much.
Not that there would be anything wrong with that, mind.
FL folks didn't have many reasons to laugh lately I reckon, so if our conjectures would have made them laugh, that's a decent result after all...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Exactly - unless people work for Fairline or Boats. Co then to me this is just 52 pages of conjecture, I bet that people in these two companies must read this stuff and be rolling their eyes or laughing.

If thats what they're doing then they deserved to go under. Companies cannot afford to ignore their online presence, good or bad. For an example of that you only have to look at Tripadvisor. Any business that gets a bad review on Tripadvisor and fails to respond positively risks being damaged. I'm not saying this forum is anywhere near being a boating Tripadvisor but this thread was an opportunity for Fairline to answer any criticisms and above all to make a positive connection with part of its potential customer base. I'm quite sure that the moderators would not have objected to contributions from them on this thread

If what you say is true, I wonder how it makes existing and potential Fairline owners who have contributed to this thread to know that Fairline is laughing at them?

 

[admillington]

If thats what they're doing then they deserved to go under. Companies cannot afford to ignore their online presence, good or bad. For an example of that you only have to look at Tripadvisor. Any business that gets a bad review on Tripadvisor and fails to respond positively risks being damaged. I'm not saying this forum is anywhere near being a boating Tripadvisor but this thread was an opportunity for Fairline to answer any criticisms and above all to make a positive connection with part of its potential customer base. I'm quite sure that the moderators would not have objected to contributions from them on this thread

If what you say is true, I wonder how it makes existing and potential Fairline owners who have contributed to this thread to know that Fairline is laughing at them?

With such a small and limited market, Fairline would be arrogant to dismiss the forum or laugh at the existing Fairline owners - do they not understand pontoon talk and how it can influence a purchase.

I was hoping that as their new MD came from a boat dealer that he would be more aware than the numerous previous non boaty people they have dumped.

 

[petem]

If thats what they're doing then they deserved to go under. Companies cannot afford to ignore their online presence, good or bad. For an example of that you only have to look at Tripadvisor. Any business that gets a bad review on Tripadvisor and fails to respond positively risks being damaged. I'm not saying this forum is anywhere near being a boating Tripadvisor but this thread was an opportunity for Fairline to answer any criticisms and above all to make a positive connection with part of its potential customer base. I'm quite sure that the moderators would not have objected to contributions from them on this thread

If what you say is true, I wonder how it makes existing and potential Fairline owners who have contributed to this thread to know that Fairline is laughing at them?

Whoa. Mike, what Paul Salliss said is not fact unless he'd like to qualify his comments.

The guys are Fairline read these threads and I'd say they read them more with dismay than anything else. They are trying hard to build a business under difficult circumstances. They certainly don't laugh at the comments. Furthermore I speak to Fairline's directors so would absolutely challenge that my posts are conjecture.

 

[petem]

With such a small and limited market, Fairline would be arrogant to dismiss the forum or laugh at the existing Fairline owners - do they not understand pontoon talk and how it can influence a purchase.

I was hoping that as their new MD came from a boat dealer that he would be more aware than the numerous previous non boaty people they have dumped.

As I said in my previous post, Fairline don't dismiss the comments here nor do they laugh at the existing Fairline owners. Why the hell would they?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Whoa. Mike, what Paul Salliss said is not fact unless he'd like to qualify his comments.

The guys are Fairline read these threads and I'd say they read them more with dismay than anything else. They are trying hard to build a business under difficult circumstances. They certainly don't laugh at the comments. Furthermore I speak to Fairline's directors so would absolutely challenge that my posts are conjecture.

Fair enough Pete but it would cost them (and other manufacturers) nothing to engage a bit with this forum especially on a thread like this. For better or worse, social media is an important marketing tool these days

 

[petem]

Fair enough Pete but it would cost them (and other manufacturers) nothing to engage a bit with this forum especially on a thread like this. For better or worse, social media is an important marketing tool these days

Personally, I think they and any other boat dealer or manufacturer would be absolutely barking mad to engage in this forum.

Yep, social media is important and it's therefore imperative to do it right - I think this is one area where businesses need professional advice. do it wrong and it's commercial suicide.

 

[paul salliss]

Personally, I think they and any other boat dealer or manufacturer would be absolutely barking mad to engage in this forum.

Yep, social media is important and it's therefore imperative to do it right - I think this is one area where businesses need professional advice. do it wrong and it's commercial suicide.

100 percent agree. Most of this as said by others is nothing more than "pontoon talk".

 

[henryf]

It is possible to engage with customers via forums but you have to totally understand how Forums work and need to have a personality. You can't do it with a corporate hat on and if you aren't careful you can damage the polished gel coat of your corporate image.

You almost need a "rogue" insider who is in fact anything but rogue.

My point about manufacturers not having control over their customer base wasn't just aimed at Fairline. It wasn't Princess who took on BCUK in a stroke of genius is was the company who sell Princess boats, Princess motor Yacht Sales, independently owned from the factory.

It's been a strange set up in the boating world. Fairline's problems probably hark back to the parting with BA Peters all those years ago. Once you've enjoyed the benefit of order books filled for you by a third party who, to be fair, has to put money where their mouth is then sell the resulting boats it isn't as easy as just saying OK, now customers are buying build slots we don't need you.

Without buying the company and investing tens of millions of pounds themselves BCUK could never remain with Fairline. The product was too dated and couldn't compete on equal terms with the competition. BKUK managed to balance discount and sales to the point where in certain segments they were shifting product and from all accounts they then looked after the customer afterwards remaining credible. The problem was how long could it last? There comes a point when the product is so out of step things become untenable.

When I spoke with Fairline at the Swanwick show last year no one mentioned discount, everyone involved truly believed their RRP to be fair and accurate, sharp contrast to BCUK who were realists. The factory may secretly blame them for undervaluing the brand through discount I don't know, but the fact is they were only doing what had to be done.

If Fairline engage with former customers which they must of course do, they need to be honest and understand the market place. But who is going to engage? Fairline the company or their dealers? Traditionally the factory have seen it as the job of their dealers.

In truth of course they already have their ideal head of marketing and customer engagement residing amongst us.....

Henry

 

[petem]

Like their contempories, old Fairline's problem started with the Financial crisis. The result being that they stopped making enough money to invest in new products. Once this started it was a downward spiral and as you say Henry ultimately resulted in BCUK and them parting company. If you speak to Nick Barke, he'll tell you the Fairline years were great (they shifted 600+ boats) and is saddened things ended as they did. I hope the guys have equal affection for Princess. As for discounting, I will speculate that they did what they had to do to shift stock. People in the know have said to me that BCUK make their money by stringing deals together. They might not make money on every boat they sell but somewhere in the chain theres a profit. Owning a marina certainly puts them at an advantage

 

[henryf]

BCUK were keeping the factory busy. As you say there is a downward spiral which results in mere survival being the end game rather than product development. Princess (and I only use them because I know the product) somehow managed to find money to push forward brand new models keeping them at the cutting edge as and when the market loosens up.

As JFM has pointed out they aren't out of the woods yet in terms of turning a healthy profit but they do at least have strong sales and decent line up. People cleverer than me need to sort out profit. I've given my thoughts to that elsewhere on here already.

I hope that new Fairline reading this realise no one hates them. They are British and many of us former owners still have a fondness for the brand. The trouble is if none of the clothes fit or styles suit what can you do but look elsewhere?

It is still incredibly early days for new Fairline. Lets see what happens at the Swanwick show. No one is expecting miracles but it will at least allow the new company to present it's hopes and aspirations for the future.

Henry