Fairline Boats purchased

[rwoofer]

I'm new to motorboats and my current Jeanneau Merry Fisher definitely has an inner lining.

In sailing boats inner linings generally don't have a positive reputation due to delamination of the lining from the hull and their ability to hide structural damage(eg. keel groundings). The problem is that it is a real expensive pain to fix this kind of damage if you know it is there. Curious why this reputation hasn't translated to motorboats and makes me wonder if there is anything inherently different in how inner linings are used.

 

[Portofino]

Agree a honeycombed lattice of GRP "box sections" sandwiched between two moulds the outer hull and a second inner forms potentially a super rigid structure .
Often seen in biological structures on planet Earth Where I reside
For structural engineering clues -look around at nature -zillions of years of evolution

Happy to leave this cul-de-sac

 

[jfm]

Agree a honeycombed lattice of GRP "box sections" sandwiched between two moulds the outer hull and a second inner forms potentially a super rigid structure .
Often seen in biological structures on planet Earth Where I reside
For structural engineering clues -look around at nature -zillions of years of evolution

Happy to leave this cul-de-sac

:encouragement::encouragement::encouragement:

 

[jfm]

...anything inherently different in how inner linings are used.

Below the w/line, you can crawl between the interior moulding and the hull. At the keel you can sit. And there are loads of access panels you can lift in the cabin floors etc to see into the space. It isn't anything like a close fitting liner in the small sailboat sense - see its shape above and see the height of the frames. The "liner" only kisses the actual main hull skin face-to-face up at the cabin windows level and the gunwhale. It is for the most part, down at cabin floor level, a thing that forms a lattice style structure when bonded across the tops of the frames.

It's bonded with crestomer and the ooze-out of the crestomer is formed into neat filet sections by a bunch of guys who crawl under the floor after the inner moulding is lowered in, then it is flo-coated white like the rest of the bilges

 

[MapisM]

MM, I don't think it has to be a choice of an inner moulding that contributes to strength and rigidity then fewer frames and stringers, or one that doesn't and the same intensity of frames and stringers. It is possible for a designer to install both a high density of frames and stringers AND the internal moulding, thereby stiffening/strengthen the hull, and this was the express intention of the design team on this boat (who are still around, btw).

Agreed, it doesn't HAVE to be a choice, but if it isn't, it ain't proper engineering, in my books.
I mean, what's the point of designing a hull which is strong enough "stand alone" and then make it stronger by mean of inner moulding?
That would be overengineering by definition, which even if obviously better than the opposite, is still a mistake.
Mind, a mistake I don't think FL made, because I still believe they must have had other reasons for their choice, more related to production efficiencies (at least based on the estimated number of hulls, which is not necessarily what they could eventually achieve) than anything else.

Anyway, even accepting your view that this build method is superior to the "just plywood" approach, this seems rather academic, when you look at what some builders out there eventually produce and sell, at even higher prices than FL, without using inner moulds...

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Agreed, it doesn't HAVE to be a choice, but if it isn't, it ain't proper engineering, in my books.
I mean, what's the point of designing a hull which is strong enough "stand alone" and then make it stronger by mean of inner moulding?
That would be overengineering by definition, which even if obviously better than the opposite, is still a mistake.
Mind, a mistake I don't think FL made, because I still believe they must have had other reasons for their choice, more related to production efficiencies (at least based on the estimated number of hulls, which is not necessarily what they could eventually achieve) than anything else.

Anyway, even accepting your view that this build method is superior to the "just plywood" approach, this seems rather academic, when you look at what some builders out there eventually produce and sell, at even higher prices than FL, without using inner moulds...

Inner moulds are always designed to decrease work time, and if used in combination with ISS it is a win win situation.
S2 Tiara yachts pioneered ISS, and they are considered among the strongest fully production boats around. In Europe Gobbi was first and today is used in Absolute.
Not much builders use ISS due to the cost of molding and design.

Fairline system is a bit of a 50/50 which as Mapis says is a bit of a surprise when you make a full inner mold and you do not use ISS. Have seen this quite a few times in some builders though.

The disadvantage of ISS are few, one of them is less flexibility in customization, and second is that you really have to do a bit of homework to have access in critical areas of a hull. Can be done though.

 

[vas]

from an engineering POV, I doubt that you can have a rigid enough hull either way.
IMHO the point is where to draw the line on hull performance (if it flexing and to what extend affects performance that is!) and price.
so discussion imho seems slightly pointless (although I do understand it's pre-session period and ppl haven't got much to discuss... )

cheers

V.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Agreed, it doesn't HAVE to be a choice, but if it isn't, it ain't proper engineering, in my books.
I mean, what's the point of designing a hull which is strong enough "stand alone" and then make it stronger by mean of inner moulding?

Agreed M. If it wasn't a feature that could be marketed and sold in terms of a better price for the boat, then it must have been brought in for production efficiency reasons and if the designers failed to take advantage of this extra rigidity by modifying the design of the hull elsewhere then they will have failed in their job

And yes some of the highest quality builders in the world who can command premium prices for their products still use the 'plywood' approach. It would be interesting though to know why Fairline adopted this construction method when their competitors with similar or larger production numbers have not

 

[sorabain]

Inner moulds are always designed to decrease work time, and if used in combination with ISS it is a win win situation.
S2 Tiara yachts pioneered ISS, and they are considered among the strongest fully production boats around. In Europe Gobbi was first and today is used in Absolute.
Not much builders use ISS due to the cost of molding and design.

Fairline system is a bit of a 50/50 which as Mapis says is a bit of a surprise when you make a full inner mold and you do not use ISS. Have seen this quite a few times in some builders though.

The disadvantage of ISS are few, one of them is less flexibility in customization, and second is that you really have to do a bit of homework to have access in critical areas of a hull. Can be done though.

What is "ISS"? Sorry if I missed it in an earlier post

 

[petem]

Glad I'm not the only who didn't know!

 

[MapisM]

LOL, no worries folks, I don't think it's actually such a widespread acronym.
Though Absolute for instance makes a big deal of that - see their webpage.
Not that I see a huge difference with what FL does, tbh...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Not that I see a huge difference with what FL does, tbh...

How is this possible? Mr Maggi says all the attempts at imitating ISS turned out to be unsuccessful.

Maybe his cakewalk just reached maturation before the others!

 

[BartW]

Inner moulds are always designed to decrease work time, and if used in combination with ISS it is a win win situation.

completely agree,
I think that FL is used to this method because of the smaller models where it all started for them

another disadvantage is that you have much more "visible plastic" in the interior,
which in a boat size of 70ft and up is not favourable (imho)

nevertheless I'm convinced that FL make very solid build boats, if not the best in its class
after having seen on here much proove of that

 

[jrudge]

But what is the alternative ? Making floors out of wood.?

I can't see this. Surely the floors of all boats are fibreglass ?

 

[vas]

But what is the alternative ? Making floors out of wood.?

I can't see this. Surely the floors of all boats are fibreglass ?

mine aren't, actually the only fiberglass part in the whole MiToS are the two exhausts covers

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

What is "ISS"? Sorry if I missed it in an earlier post

Integrated Structural System. With this construction is a stringent puzzle and stringers are made to connect with bulkheads, making them becoming part of structural integrity.

 

[Portofino]

But what is the alternative ? Making floors out of wood.?

I can't see this. Surely the floors of all boats are fibreglass ?

Marine ply about 1 inch thick over thick wooden beams ,like a house joists then covered with a teak /holly floor -that's thick two .-where the wood meets the hull it's all glassed in .
Ribs /frames all wood ,and glassed over for the box section added GRP strength along with separating bulkheads
Yup ply internal fit out -I think this is the trad method and probably time consuming manually building it all .
Even if the parts are prefabed - some one has to put it all together -wait for GRP glasong in to to cure etc
Quality -well all depends on how thick , how much and what type of GRP work and of course frame size / density .
And into exactly what type of GRP hull you start with 1/2 cm thick ,1cm thick 3 cm thick -may vary too .

 

[jfm]

another disadvantage is that you have much more "visible plastic" in the interior,
which in a boat size of 70ft and up is not favourable (imho)

I agree it is not favourable as a concept, but you don't have to have it when you use this construction method and you don't get it on the fairline boat >70 feet pictured above. The ONLY place on that boat where you see the gelcoat of the interior moulding is (a) engine room walls and floor, (b) some engineering spaces like lining of the chambers where some airco units are installed, (c) linings of the deep storage lockers under the beds, and (d) two of the showers. You don't see it anywhere else, not even 1cm sq, and not even in places like the inside of wardrobes. As regards the places where you can see it, a-b-c, it is an advantage not a disadvantage (imho)

 

[Danchc]

I can't help wondering if anyone has been put off buying from Fairline after all this.

Ready built boats are one thing, but part-paying up front for an expensive boat to be built might be different...

Just wondering....

 

[DougH]

I can't help wondering if anyone has been put off buying from Fairline after all this.

Ready built boats are one thing, but part-paying up front for an expensive boat to be built might be different...

Just wondering....

You can't say that about Fairline:disgust:

No personal opinions allowed here.

The Fairline Police will be along soon and put you in a bilge cell for a week (or two).

Mind you all the bilge cells will be lined with smooth GRP and not Marine Ply.:encouragement: