Fairline Boats purchased

[boatingdave]

Nice to hear - mine was only an opinion based on heresay so having the feedback from a real owner is useful. Still very impressed with my 'old' squadron though.

As an owner of a 2015 Squadron 65 I am afraid I would disagree with you. There are 4 other new ones in Cala Dor and I think they would probably disagree with you as well.

The boat handles well in my opinion, takes the sea well ( all magazines tell you they went out in a force 7, their drink did not spill and they just plodded along at 30 knots in total comfort .... all of which is total rot) in all normal seas and is well built. Other than a patio door groaning ( solved) has no obvious travels or creaks. I have to date done 250 hours on it from new within minimal issues, and nil issues that have stopped the boat moving.

Build quality is good as was factory support (pre them going bust) and Essex / Boats.co.uk ongoing.

I have nil complaints.

 

[crustysailor321]

all magazines tell you they went out in a force 7, their drink did not spill and they just plodded along at 30 knots in total comfort .... all of which is total rot

.

Oh, you aren't implying mby reviews aren't telling the whole truth, are we?

But as for magazines, yeah well, that makes perfect sense, they are not going to get another chance to review a boat from a particular boat builder if they told the complete and unvarnished truth. I know some car magazines can afford to buy a brand new car on their own to test without relying on the manufacturer having the good grace to offer one to them for free. That way, they can ensure their objectivity. But since the average yacht cost a heck of a lot more than a car (new ones anyway), I don't think that is an option for most yacht magazines.

 

[DougH]

Utter tosh. ;-) I have a Squadron (admittedly not a new one, previous generation before they went down the 'square' phase) and the build quality and handling is excellent (although design could have done with a bit more thought) . I like both Fairline and Princess boats for this. I also have friends who have Sealine boats so I'll not comment on that aspect as we each have our own opinion.[/QUOTE]

All you have achieved is to prove my point.

 

[admillington]

Getting very bored with the comments about Fairline Boats - my 2012 Squadron 58 still pleases me when I find something else that has been done very well and far from cutting cost. The original poster needs to actually have a look in the bits you can't easily see - a number of us would welcome leaving him in the bilge for the odd week.

As an owner of a 2015 Squadron 65 I am afraid I would disagree with you. There are 4 other new ones in Cala Dor and I think they would probably disagree with you as well.

The boat handles well in my opinion, takes the sea well ( all magazines tell you they went out in a force 7, their drink did not spill and they just plodded along at 30 knots in total comfort .... all of which is total rot) in all normal seas and is well built. Other than a patio door groaning ( solved) has no obvious travels or creaks. I have to date done 250 hours on it from new within minimal issues, and nil issues that have stopped the boat moving.

Build quality is good as was factory support (pre them going bust) and Essex / Boats.co.uk ongoing.

I have nil complaints.

 

[jfm]

have a look in the bits you can't easily see - a number of us would welcome leaving him in the bilge for the odd week.

Yup, admillington. For example if anyone can point me to a comparable boat built with a single huge one-piece interior moulding, bonded to the frames and stringers of the hull, rather than a 100% piecemeal plywood internal construction, it will be on my shopping list . It's a much more challenging way to make a boat and costs more in tooling, but it is better.

 

[boatingdave]

Just have a look at build quality, hull thickness, construction and hull design, you get what you pay for. I like having a Fairline Squadron, rarely hear a bad word said about them (I was happy to be corrected earlier as it was only based on heresay and I don't own a 'new' one so not qualified to refute the comment). I don't think its proved your point and I'm not crass enough to comment on others peoples pride and joy as it is personal choice as there are plus and minus points with everything in life.

Utter tosh. ;-) I have a Squadron (admittedly not a new one, previous generation before they went down the 'square' phase) and the build quality and handling is excellent (although design could have done with a bit more thought) . I like both Fairline and Princess boats for this. I also have friends who have Sealine boats so I'll not comment on that aspect as we each have our own opinion.[/QUOTE]

All you have achieved is to prove my point.

 

[boatingdave]

+1

Yup, admillington. For example if anyone can point me to a comparable boat built with a single huge one-piece interior moulding, bonded to the frames and stringers of the hull, rather than a 100% piecemeal plywood internal construction, it will be on my shopping list . It's a much more challenging way to make a boat and costs more in tooling, but it is better.

 

[petem]

Yup, admillington. For example if anyone can point me to a comparable boat built with a single huge one-piece interior moulding, bonded to the frames and stringers of the hull, rather than a 100% piecemeal plywood internal construction, it will be on my shopping list . It's a much more challenging way to make a boat and costs more in tooling, but it is better.

You mean all boats aren't built that way?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

You mean all boats aren't built that way?

To be honest I thought Sealine pioneered that method of construction, at least in the UK. I stand to be corrected but isn't it fairly common these days? And if its more challenging and costly to do, why were Fairline doing it!!

 

[Cheery]

And how recent was your Squadron boat? Is it a fairly old model or a relatively new one? The current Squadron models (well...the ones that Fairline still have on offer before they went under) does not have same handling prowess as its older models.

Well, having read numerous threads or posts by JFM on here over a number of years, It's safe to say that he appears to be happy. Never having met him, two things strike me;

a) He knows his stuff.

b) He is fastidious to the point of OCD (no offence)

If someone with that background is happy with a Sq78 then what is the problem, other than one of aesthetics as you say about hardtops. Most manufacturers offer them now anyway.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Yup, admillington. For example if anyone can point me to a comparable boat built with a single huge one-piece interior moulding, bonded to the frames and stringers of the hull, rather than a 100% piecemeal plywood internal construction, it will be on my shopping list . It's a much more challenging way to make a boat and costs more in tooling, but it is better.

I think most American production all build in this method, some of them at quite competitive final prices.
AFAIK one of the first to use this method must have been Tiara S2 yachts in the 80s.

Should become cost effective as well when you go at certain numbers, in a production scale. It starts to make less sense if you want to offer a semi custom offer.
By semi custom I mean really semi-custom not a choice of only wood, but varied interior offers.

Cost effective, I have always been told by boat builders is that the usual number to start making profit from molds is an average of 10 boats sold.

 

[jfm]

...but isn't it fairly common these days?

Erk, no Mike. Take a trip to Poole and you'll see just open hulls with no frames even, and everything, but everything, is plywood on the inside. In Plymouth they frame the hulls nicely and use a series of internal GRP mouldings to form furniture and bathrooms etc, but they don't use a single huge structural internal moulding from gunwhale to chine to keel to chine to gunwhale, like the one in my first pic above.

Of course plywood is ok and you don't have to build a boat with a bonded in internal mould as big as the hull; it's just a better way of doing the basic hull construction. I'm mentioning only this in response the "good quality/bad quality" recent posts on this thread and I'm happy not to go into a huge side-line discussion on it

 

[Portofino]

You mean all boats aren't built that way?

Its a way of speeding up production and possiblbly using more lower skilled ( read cheaper ) ,and fewer work force .
Yes the initial tooling costs but it's a one off for 100+ boats .
There are no water tight bulkheads -fluids can travel between the two skins .
It relays on the combined rigidity of the two bonded together to provide a solid structure as opposed to a seperate hull .
The trad method will lay up a hull with more stringers and bearer,s and beams glassed in by hand -all labour intensive using what ever plywood , metal , carbon fibre ( Sunseeker currently glass in carbon fibre it's lighter )
Hull stays in the mould longer waiting for it all to be built before you can pull it put and start another -assuming you have a waiting list -ie sold forward
Then comes real tricky and time consuming bit hand build glass in bond in all rest ,or have prefabed the separating partitions to drop in and finally put the deck mould on -forming a rigid but heavier and more time consuming boat
The prefab walls on the "liner boats "can be thinner and lighter and cheaper -cos the rigidity is mostly done with the two -liner + hull bonded together .
I do not like liners and I,am surprised FL used this method ,like sealine and Bavaria .
This is because -all though FL seemingly managed to avoid the potential problems ,other boat builders have not .
They just cut it too thin / tight on materials -obviously which ends up with a squeaking boat or rattles .
Floor panals move, things flex and there's Allways ,( not when new or newish ) the risk however small of future delamination of the bond between the hull and liner , exists .
What liners do in theory is give designer arguably greater flexibility ( excuse the pun none intended ) on the interior layout -by way of greater volume - cos you do not need as many vertical walls internally,due to the "extra rigidity " of the two bonded pieces .Or you can fit out the rest of the interior with lighter material or offer more custom variations .
I,am not critiquing it -it's what it is - just how it's done by some .
I have viewd and sea trialled two marques ( it's not polite to name ,names ) that were "liner boats " one Italian ,t,other Uk --- sadly they squeaked , rattled, and had poor door fits .
I suppose stepping of off a solid Sunseeker -100% plywood glassed it's was the most noticeable thing .
All IMHO .
I don,t think Sunseeker use this " liner "method " just check out there website they are more handcraft trad build.
I have no dought FL did it right as well .
I realise I,ll get shot for this

 

[jfm]

aesthetics

Yep the new model introduction has been slow at Fairline for sure, meaning that several models are long in the tooth as regards looks. I bought my last few boats eyes wide open on this point (in 2009 I raced to buy one of the last Sq58s before they ceased production, and it wasn't to save money), but other customers might have chosen competitor products out of dislike for Fairline long-in-tooth ness. That said, whether insufficient new models cost old Fairline their survival or prolonged it, I don't know, when you see the new model every week builders burning cash.

I like to console myself with the thought that while Fairlines are not the latest-looking models there is nothing under the skin that makes them old, and they adopt a classic/mainstream overall look that ages ok. They also have sharp bows. The aesthetics are not perfect for sure; I'm only claiming "ok" on the aesthetics front, as this pics perhaps show candidly:

Under the skin however they score better in my book. The electrical installation is outstanding, for example. Being a techy type among the world of boat geeks I care about that

 

[Portofino]

Yup, admillington. For example if anyone can point me to a comparable boat built with a single huge one-piece interior moulding, bonded to the frames and stringers of the hull, rather than a 100% piecemeal plywood internal construction, it will be on my shopping list . It's a much more challenging way to make a boat and costs more in tooling, but it is better.
Lazzara -as William says Amercan

Why is it "better "?

Can a "liner " boat ever be built to a classification ? With water tight bulk heads and the rest ?
Just curious ?

 

[jfm]

It relays on the combined rigidity of the two bonded together to provide a solid structure as opposed to a seperate hull .(

So does this. That's my whole point.

The trad method will lay up a hull with more stringers and bearer,s and beams glassed in by hand -all labour intensive

Fairline do not use the inner moulding as an excuse to avoid internal hull frames and stringers. Here is s78 hull before the internal mould is bonded on top of the frames. You cannot post a picture of any sunseeker in the say 50-90 foot bracket that comes remotely close to this intensity of frames and hulk strength.

This is at risk of becoming toptrumpsy, quite apart from engineeringly absurd, so I'm happy to agree to disagree

 

[jfm]

Why is it "better "?

Can a "liner " boat ever be built to a classification ? With water tight bulk heads and the rest ?
Just curious ?

Because AOTBE it is stiffer and stronger.
There is no incompatibility between an internal mould and w'tight bulkheads. You'd interrupt the internal mould at the bulkhead obviously (as is the case on my boat even though it doesn't have w'tight bulkheads) but it would all be bonded so it wouldn't be an interruption in the structural sense

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

b) He is fastidious to the point of OCD (no offence)

That's not offensive, that's a compliment (and I'm certain jfm would take it that way too).

 

[jfm]

That's not offensive, that's a compliment (and I'm certain jfm would take it that way too).

Yes indeed, taken as a compliment
However it amounts to possible competition Jimmy: you are meant to be chief of CDO-ism round these parts :encouragement:

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Of course plywood is ok and you don't have to build a boat with a bonded in internal mould as big as the hull; it's just a better way of doing the basic hull construction. I'm mentioning only this in response the "good quality/bad quality" recent posts on this thread and I'm happy not to go into a huge side-line discussion on it

Well I certainly don't think its unique to Fairline. The question is why they chose to do it and the answer is not to build a better boat because for sure Fairline would have been aware that the market wouldn't pay a premium for a Fairline boat constructed in this way. I have certainly never seen any marketing material out of Fairline that majored on this benefit and in any case it would have been a very hard sell to claim that the boats built in Plymouth and Poole were of inferior construction. So that leaves the only other reason which is trying to lower production costs which is very laudable but it doesn't necessarily make it a superior form of construction