longjohnsilver
Well-Known Member
And "I could have turned this business around - we were working an order book, working with dealers, we'd engaged all the right stake holders.
I wouldn't want to play him at poker!
Fairline - any news?
- Thread starter DougH
- Start date
And "I could have turned this business around - we were working an order book, working with dealers, we'd engaged all the right stake holders.
I wouldn't want to play him at poker!
rudder
New Member
And what of his "cunning plan" for Fletcher?. Has he dispatched that team? I hear so...now we're will those mould tools go?
jfm
Well-Known Member
Mm I'm not totally following your logic. You can see from public filings that better capital have a right to appoint administrators in relation to money owed to them, and it appears that is what they have done. Wessex Bristol have therefore been taken a bit by surprise.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Does this kybosh any plans that WB had for going to a prepack administration?
petem
Well-Known Member
From what I can surmise, BC wanted shot of the business quickly, presumably to avoid another City Link. They offer the business to WB for a deferred payments of £2m (BC become secured creditor). I would guess this is the sum total of the value of any assets. WB don't do any due diligence as they have no intention of injecting any cash into the business unless they can see a recovery (so have nothing to lose). They hope to 'wing it' with regard to ongoing costs by persuading dealers to pass on deposits. Dealers refuse to place orders as no guarantees offered by WB. WB realise what a shit state the business is in, partly due to high rents / long leases from 3i (?) days. WB propose CVA to turn business around but no 3rd party investment forthcoming. BC worried that CVA will result in assets being realised to pay creditors. BC confidence in WB diminishes so call in receivers to recover their £2m.
Coming out of this I still regard BC and their predecessors as having killed the business. I have no idea if WB are chancers / fantasists or whether the whole thing was pre-planned.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Well, my logic is actually fairly simple, and I explained it before: I believe that if there's anyone on this planet who is not taken by surprise from what is happening, they are BC and WB folks, who are just putting in place a plan agreed in advance.
Reason being (barring some others I can only imagine) that BC can now pretend to have an "at arm's length" claim on the charge you told us about.
Otoh, before you dismiss this as yet another "presumption of wrong doing", let's summarise what has been discussed so far:
1) BC sells FL to WB for a deferred consideration of £2m, trusting some sort of turnaround plans that should allow FL to continue as a going concern.
2) At the same time, BC puts in place a fixed and floating charge (of which amounts, btw?) on FL.
3) Right after taking over FL, WB not only refrains from throwing any money in the business, but all they do is stop paying everybody PDQ.
4) Eventually, after the shorter timeframe in turnaround plans history, what do we have?
- BC pretending to cash in their cheque, based on the fact that they were surprised by WB lack of commitment/investment;
- WB declaring that they are surprised by BC move, because they "had a plan, and now the administrators are in our plan has been halted".
Now, I'm not pretending that the conclusion I drew is the only possible one, but if you have any realistic alternative to suggest, I for one am very curious to hear it.
But please, don't tell me that what all these smart folks want us to buy into, i.e. that they were caught out by their reciprocally unexpected behavior, is a realistic alternative.
You are MUCH more clever than that!
rubberduck
Well-Known Member
+1 x lots
superheat6k
Well-Known Member
I expect the city financiers behind these schemes will have a 'legal' means to tell us this is all perfectly legitimate, just like they did in 2008, albeit then to a somewhat larger scale of course. And meanwhile whats left of the British boat building industry continues its ride around the U bend, whilst someone somewhere is making good, certainly not the poor employees, nor the (unpaid) suppliers.
When will the financial industry get it that Joe Public is not a fool, and is fed up with financing their lifestyles and endless personal rewards without associated personal risks.
When will the financial industry get it that Joe Public is not a fool, and is fed up with financing their lifestyles and endless personal rewards without associated personal risks.
rudder
New Member
I have a question for the forum..with the hint of Bates maybe helping, if FB did get a life line thrown would you as potential customers with brand loyalty have confidence to spend and to put deposits and good faith down while BC, and WB with Ayaz CEO..?. And any one on the forum employed at FB do you have faith and confidence to stay if a bail out plan is placed, considering the manner in which Ayaz has conducted himself so far.. This may seem a silly question but through out this thread we all speak of how sad it will be to loose FB yet what if a bail out is found?. What would FB become?
Boatingboy
New Member
With the way Mr Ahmed has conducted himself to date - Absolutely no way would I stay or return.
jfm
Well-Known Member
Personal risks: all the investors in Ferretti (2007 buyout), Oyster (2007) Canados (2007), Princess (2008), Fairline (2006 and 2011), and a bunch of others I can't remember, have lost absolutely shed loads of their money on these investments. (And I'm not sure Joe public made any meaningful contribution either!). The only successful ones I can think of in recent years are the Irish financial investors who bought and sold sunseeker, though they did take risk
rudder
New Member
They have a list that they want to hold. Fair play to the lads working for the administrators to get things finished but please don't piss people about anymore.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Also to mention that the investors in funds like BC tend to be professional investors themselves well aware of the risks involved and not the proverbial 'widows and orphans' punting their life savings. I'm not sure why there should be an apparent antipathy on this thread to private equity investors like BC. For sure they're in it for the money but isn't every investor in a company? Not only that but investors like BC put their money into failing companies, of the type that other investors won't touch, and which would otherwise have gone under so you could argue that BC gave Fairline a chance over the last few years that they otherwise wouldn't have had
jfm
Well-Known Member
I forgot the LBO of Bavaria from the founding family of course. I forget exact numbers but wasn't €500m of equity lost on that investment, or something of that order?
Shadow63
New Member
The employees who are called in have to go as they are still employed and are contractually obligated to go in. To not do so would forfeit any rights redundancy entitlement.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Bain were reported to have lost anything up to a billion somethings, but that was probably overstating things a bit.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Adding to the above - i read in the Times over the W/E about John Moulton -the guy behind the two BC investment vehicles one of which has tryed to back FLBoats -,that when John M found him self in front of a Parliamentary select committee being quized over last years xmas day collapse of "City link".
He retorted that HMRC has happily sat back over the 3 yrs of BC trying to turn it around and received £75M in taxes and PAYE .
So in some ways although its running against the mood /emotions on here -BC could be argued they extended
a few years of life to FL Boats in a contracting industry.
The other thing i,am puzzled about is lets call it "canteen culture " or "coffee machine chat"
People talk - so info from delaers, sales ,new orders, pipeline and general office staff etc must have filtered through
That things where not going as planned .Barke Bros being an example .
Any one of the BC portfolio Co,s is at risk of the plug being pulled -thats the very nature of BC and what JM is trying to do.Its not an ideal place to be .
The guy that bought Man City football club allegedly spent £500M in the 1st year -actually turned up for a game or two at the start .
Few years later at a social function in London somebody ask him over a glass or two "how,s City doing "
he looked puzzled -an aid whispered in he ear -then the astonishment look appeared on his face .
He forgot he owned it!
Thats the type investor a boat builder needs .
rudder
New Member
I must admit that Molton and his merry men did keep FB in waves and afloat though never listened..If they had they would not have passed money on silly cnc and parts cell... New product new product new product...that was captain Derrick philosophy..It could have been so good and to be fair they never tried to force annualised hours on us...no FB worker should cow to that..
stelican
Well-Known Member
Hi Rudder
I worked with Fairline from the late 70s for over 25yrs had a very enjoyable and comfortable life. I think Sam had some difficult years but always seemed to come through. He was a good business man with a real passion for boats.
What do you think caused the demise of Fairline
Best wishes for the future
Boatingboy
New Member
Good luck to all at Fairline boats today. I hope you all get what you wish for.