jfm
Well-Known Member
Forum mix up
- sorry, what I meant was that your tax analysis was off the mark, but it's a bit of a side show in the grand scheme.
Fairline - any news?
- Thread starter DougH
- Start date
- sorry, what I meant was that your tax analysis was off the mark, but it's a bit of a side show in the grand scheme.
jfm
Well-Known Member
On their own without the brand and design drawings and ceritifcations, almost nothing imho. With the brand etc and designs, then something
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
T60 mounds have been for sale ever since the Sealine break up.
They come with all drawings, component mounds and production rights
£95k and they can't shift them
They come with all drawings, component mounds and production rights
£95k and they can't shift them
petem
Well-Known Member
Sorry, just a careless assumption with zero knowledge.
Does being a secure creditor give you any preference over other creditors?
EME
Well-Known Member
From wikipedia , so usual caveats, priority is :-
Liquidators costs
Creditors with fixed charge over assets
Costs incurred by an administrator
Amounts owing to employees for wages/superannuation
Payments owing in respect of workers's injuries
Amounts owing to employees for leave
Retrenchment payments owing to employees
Creditors with floating charge over assets
Creditors without security over assets
Shareholders (Liquidating distribution)
---
petem
Well-Known Member
If I read one more Fairline article with a headline along the lines of "Boat Builder Hits the Rocks" I'm gonna scream!
petem
Well-Known Member
Well there's gonna be **** all left after BC have taken their bit.
Bojangles
Well-Known Member
Very sad to read this, I feel sorry for the workforce, a terrible time to face uncertainty, I was once in the same position almost on the same day 13 years ago.
Like others, I hope Fairline can be resurrected in some form, or maybe a new company started from within the existing people there?
There must be a market for someone building nice quality affordable boats from around the 25ft mark.
Like others, I hope Fairline can be resurrected in some form, or maybe a new company started from within the existing people there?
There must be a market for someone building nice quality affordable boats from around the 25ft mark.
jfm
Well-Known Member
I don't wish to fan lots of flames but a new charge, fixed and floating in favour of a BC company, was executed 28/9/2015 and filed at companies house. So BC are well forward in the queue.
petem
Well-Known Member
So BC are better off calling the receivers in now rather than let the other creditors get some recompense via the IVA agreement?
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Q does not look right -missing these guys
HMRC -tax
VAT
Fit in after administrator /liquidator 2nd and 3 rd
HMRC -tax
VAT
Fit in after administrator /liquidator 2nd and 3 rd
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Am I mixing up dates, or was it the day before the WB takeover? And if so, doesn't that scream claw-back action?!?
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Very unfair. Nigerian scammers don't chuck £30 something million into a company to try to make it work. BC bought the company, chucked a load of money at it and it didn't work. Can't blame them for wanting to bail out and get back out a little of what they put in. If BC did such a bad job of running Fairline, there'd be a queue around the block of potential buyers thinking they can do better than BC but the fact is there aren't
jfm
Well-Known Member
No not at all. There is sometimes too much presumption of wrong doing around here! The charge was indeed put in place as an integral part of the BC-->WB sale but that doesn't make it wrong. If the lender had outstanding demand loans a charge is perfectly lawful and anyway some of the secured loan was I'd guess either lent upon the sale (to give a wording capital pot) or might have been lent afterwards to fund boats in build. It really doesn't scream of bad behaviour.
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Just an observation
Fairline clearly at some point in the past made the decision to go for low volume high value boats and to abandon the other 99% of the market,presumably on the assumption that section of the market was recession proof and no need to culture a captive market who will upgrade to your bigger craft on up grade.
This seems to follow a pattern as with Sealine who in an increasing policy to go ever upmarket were chasing an ever smaller bunch of buyers very time they culled their range of smaller boats.
A victim of ...well not sure really,but you can still buy a small Ben or Jean from a builder who did not pull up the size drawbridge and prices that disappeared up into the stratosphere.
Victim of being in nowhere land between the Italian souper yachts and French egalite. ?
Fairline clearly at some point in the past made the decision to go for low volume high value boats and to abandon the other 99% of the market,presumably on the assumption that section of the market was recession proof and no need to culture a captive market who will upgrade to your bigger craft on up grade.
This seems to follow a pattern as with Sealine who in an increasing policy to go ever upmarket were chasing an ever smaller bunch of buyers very time they culled their range of smaller boats.
A victim of ...well not sure really,but you can still buy a small Ben or Jean from a builder who did not pull up the size drawbridge and prices that disappeared up into the stratosphere.
Victim of being in nowhere land between the Italian souper yachts and French egalite. ?
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henryf
Well-Known Member
I don't think size has anything to do with it. Concentrating your efforts on smaller boats with less profit is a very dangerous move unless your designs are so good and your manufacturing so efficient you corner the market.
Others raised the bar in terms of design, Fairline were left behind. For a while Essex managed the situation by selling on price but eventually the gap was too big to bridge.
Henry
edited to say it was probably going large that saved the others.
Others raised the bar in terms of design, Fairline were left behind. For a while Essex managed the situation by selling on price but eventually the gap was too big to bridge.
Henry
edited to say it was probably going large that saved the others.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I don't think Fairline or indeed any other of the (previously) Big 4 UK builders wilfully and gratuitously abandoned the small boat market. I'm sure it was a straight business decision based on the fact that countries like the UK are expensive places to build boats making it impossible to compete in more price sensitive areas of the market. However where I do think that Fairline and others deserve criticism is that they lost sight of any semblance of value for money. New UK motorboat prices have been increasing at a rate significantly higher than inflation over the years with the result that now, in more austere times, builders are having to heavily discount their products to shift them leading to major losses
As for BenJen, yes they didn't lose sight of the value for money thing but at the same time, as with many large French companies, its difficult to know just how much support they receive from the state in hidden and not so hidden subsidies and tax breaks so its probably not fair to compare their strategy or performance with Fairline or any other boat builder
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Suspect this is very true....
but no different to UK selling a our infrastructure to anybody who has the price ?
Not sure if the French or Germans,whatever their faults,are quite so supplicant to the whim of market forces,especially with regards to national
assets ?
Still,the government of the day can only do what the electorate demands.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Which country has had the more vibrant and growing economy during the last few years, indeed during the last couple of decades? Its not France so I wouldn't hold up France's state managed economy as a beacon of how to run an economy although I agree that their train set is better than ours
Timetosail!
New Member
I'm not sure that the decision making becomes as simple as that. In a business that is extremely strapped for cash, new product development becomes the art of the possible rather than being able to choose new and novel strategies. Its an unavoidable fact that the vast majority of new boat buyers trade up when buying a new boat. If a business has good brand loyalty - which Fairline had, then the best source of cash in new product development is the next model up from your current hit model. the expectation being that your loyal buyers will return in a couple of years and buy your new product.
Of course, this means that the product portfolio drifts upwards in size and away from the categories that introduce new buyers to the brand. If the business doesn't generate the extra cash to be able to keep its entry offer fresh, the brands loyal customer base will wither on the vine and fade away.
Add to that the cost of building new boats, both in specification terms and the costs of building in the UK, the relatively good value for money of used boats these days and, some even more powerful underlying market demographic trends, and you have a very difficult set of market dynamics for smaller boats.
As others have pointed out, some well found dealers can compensate for this by pricing action - but that isn't sustainable in the long term.
IMHO, BeCaps main failing with Fairline was to focus their money on operational turnaround, cost reduction and build efficiencies rather than understanding the market and refreshing the product portfolio. Efficiencies are important, but they don't mean squat if customers don't want your products.