Fairline - any news?

Deleted User said:
No Pete, it wasn't poor management just the result of a rapidly maturing market which got a good kick along the market cycle thanks to the global financial meltdown. None of the mainstream builders are exactly prospering at the moment; it was Fairline's misfortune to be owned by an owner whose pockets were shallower than the owners of other builders

If the Fairline management could be criticised it would be for not appreciating that the pre 2009 boom was just that, an unsustainable boom and for not foreseeing the decline in demand for expensive gas guzzling gin palaces and developing other products better suited to these more straitened times. But you could say that about many companies in many different industries
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I did say contribute not cause. BC's contribution to the current perilous state of the business being their ability to antagonize their loyal customers, piss off their star dealer to the extent that they walk, neglect their staff and finally their inability to launch good quality new models (remember the Shadow fiasco) and the questionable T53. And that's just the stuff I know about.
 
chief1 said:
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that many moons ago, Fairline were rescued from a previous financial disaster by BA Peters buying all their stock boats, and in return were given semi exclusive selling rights to large chunks of this country and some of the Mediterranean. Whilst not perfect, like the House of Lords, this arrangement worked until so called whiz kid management arrived at Fairline and stopped it. We all know what happened to BA Peters who failed to replace the brand with a suitable alternative, and I do wonder what would have happened at Fairline if the arrangement had been allowed to stand, downturn not withstanding. And I fully accept the second paragraph of Deleted User's response above.

My sympathies and thoughts to the staff, lions led by donkeys is the phrase which springs to mind
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I believe that B A Peters did a very good job of managing the brand, dealer channels and their Quality Assurance at Chichester was extensive. For a time they even had a guy at the factory checking all their boats in build.

Had they still been around I believe it would have been a very different story at Fairline.
 
petem said:
I did say contribute not cause. BC's contribution to the current perilous state of the business being their ability to antagonize their loyal customers, piss off their star dealer to the extent that they walk, neglect their staff and finally their inability to launch good quality new models (remember the Shadow fiasco) and the questionable T53. And that's just the stuff I know about.
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Pete, I don't suppose your invite still stands!
 
jfm said:
Thank you guys for the boats. And boats aren't just boats - they are the fun of building them and they are platforms on which folks have fun and make great memories

This is very sad. I don't think we should call time on it just yet though. It is possible a new smaller Fairline of some sort will emerge from the administration. I'm not holding out great hopes but something could happen. The company has or will soon have some cash (when boats are finished) and I hope that means employees and suppliers get something useful in the short term. Fingers crossed.
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As a member of Staff at Fairline that helped build your Sq78's jfm, I cannot tell you how it felt today to stand in front of the Administrators hearing the news that we are unlikely to be paid on Christmas Eve and that we are extremely likely to lose our jobs. There were some 200 staff still within the business today to hear the news despite the layoffs that have happened, and I can tell you that even as we waited for the administrators to come down and tell us what was going on we all wanted to believe that this wasn't the end. All I really want to say is that I have had the pleasure of working with some fantastic guys who are immensely proud of the products we made. They treated the boats as their own until they left the factory and it has been a privilege to work alongside some of the best craftsmen in the industry. I hope this isn't the end of Fairline because as a company the spirit of Fairline gets right under your skin, and even when you really don't want it to be any more you cannot help the fact that it is part of you. Sad, tired and quite emotional I wish all of the guys all the very best for the future because they deserve it. After all their loyalty, hard work, determination, commitment and tireless attention to detail it looks like we have been let down for the last time. Damn that hurts.
 
Glad to see no-one is blaming the fairline boat builders or staff for there contribution. Good luck to you all in these trying times.
 
chief1 said:
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that many moons ago, Fairline were rescued from a previous financial disaster by BA Peters buying all their stock boats, and in return were given semi exclusive selling rights to large chunks of this country and some of the Mediterranean.
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Thanks, I wasn't aware of that story. But even Peters weren't perfect, I remember sending them a letter with some feed back soon after we took delivery of our boat. Didn't even get an acknowledgement. And when the anti fouling fell off the drives on our brand new boat they insisted it was returned from Port Solent to Chichester to save the cost of a lift. Needless to say there was no offer to pay for the fuel or compensation for the additional hours on the engines.
 
chief1 said:
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that many moons ago, Fairline were rescued from a previous financial disaster by BA Peters buying all their stock boats, and in return were given semi exclusive selling rights to large chunks of this country and some of the Mediterranean. Whilst not perfect, like the House of Lords, this arrangement worked until so called whiz kid management arrived at Fairline and stopped it. We all know what happened to BA Peters who failed to replace the brand with a suitable alternative, and I do wonder what would have happened at Fairline if the arrangement had been allowed to stand, downturn not withstanding.
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That ain't quite right. Yes it is true BAP got their exclusive dealership as part of a rescue, way back in 1990s. That deal expired on its expiry date and Fairline didn't renew it, switching instead to Essex. That was done by continuing management, Derek Carter, not whizzkid new management. To be fair, it was done under 3i ownership not Graham Beck, because 3i had bought the company shortly before the BAP deal expired. If that BAP arrangement had been allowed to stand there would have been no Essexboatyards, and the many people (I appreciate not everyone) who got awful service from BAP would have bought something else (my first Sq58 came through Peters and they were truly truly awful, they damaged the boat, and I would never use them again). Essex as a replacement for BPA was a big benefit to Fairline
 
petem said:
This is an odd thing to say though "“Questions certainly need to be asked as to why the current legislation can allow an employer to act in such a draconian way and treat its workforce in such a diabolical manner." Surely if the story is true then FL are not acting within the law. Or am I missing something?
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P, I'm just thinking aloud now, because my knowledge of EN labour laws is nowhere near enough to tell for sure.
Therefore, I'll gladly stand corrected from anyone who knows better - in fact, I'm even interested to hear from them.

But I believe that deducting pension contributions from wages without actually paying them, that's not actually illegal per se - if by "illegal" we mean that it's a fraud.
If a Company Director has diverted that money in his own interest, or has made some other fraudulent use of the Company funds, THAT would obviously be illegal.
But if the Company just didn't pay those contributions for the very same reasons why was unable to pay other debits, well, that is simply one of the many things that will have to be considered from the receivers.
Possibly those outstanding contributions will have a higher privilege than ordinary creditors, and it could be that there's some form of public insurance covering them (both would be true in IT, frinstance), but that's just about it.

In fact, my understanding of the sentence you quoted, which according to the Peterborough Telegraph is a declaration from "Unite regional officer Mick Orpin" is that he's complaining about the fact that a Company can behave like that without actually doing anything illegal.
But aside from being very obviously an unethical behaviour, I wonder what he would expect the Company to do, if it's actually unable to pay.
My guess is that he's generically complaining about the fact that, behind this situation, there are shareholders who can buy and sell companies, without caring at all about these implications and without being held responsible in any manner.
In a sense, he's arguing that the principle of the limited responsibility is wrong - and in more ways than one, I sympathize with that.
But I'm surely not holding my breath waiting for legislation changes in this respect.
 
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On well it won't come as a surprise to read on the"Alliance News" on thestock exchange website that it was our good old friends Better Capital that called in the administrators...mmm....Happy Christmas girls and boys from Mr Moulton..
 
StockMarketWire.com - Better Capital has noted that Fairline Boats has gone into administration. Better Capital announced on 29 September the sale by the 2009 Fund of the entire issued share capital of Fairline to an entity which had agreed to provide further funding into Fairline. But Better Capital says it has been informed that, following the absence of the expected further funding, a vehicle owned by the 2009 Fund has appointed an administrator to Fairline in order to protect the 2009 Fund's interests as a senior creditor. The deferred consideration for the sale of Fairline was valued at £2m in the 30 September interim accounts of the 2009 Cell.

So the deferred consideration was £2m. The failure of the new owner to invest in the business doesn't say much for BC's due diligence does it?
 
petem said:
StockMarketWire.com - Better Capital has noted that Fairline Boats has gone into administration. Better Capital announced on 29 September the sale by the 2009 Fund of the entire issued share capital of Fairline to an entity which had agreed to provide further funding into Fairline. But Better Capital says it has been informed that, following the absence of the expected further funding, a vehicle owned by the 2009 Fund has appointed an administrator to Fairline in order to protect the 2009 Fund's interests as a senior creditor. The deferred consideration for the sale of Fairline was valued at £2m in the 30 September interim accounts of the 2009 Cell.

So the deferred consideration was £2m. The failure of the new owner to invest in the business doesn't say much for BC's due diligence does it?
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They were obviously waiting for your visit, hoping that you would order a new Targa 29 to keep them ticking over.
 
So the deferred consideration was £2m. The failure of the new owner to invest in the business doesn't say much for BC's due diligence does it?
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Looks like this was the plan all the time.......now BC is a creditor on even terms with all the other creditors instead of being last on the list when assets are sold off. Looks better to be a creditor "cheated" of money than being the one laying off workers and not paying creditors.

That the deal with BW is structured in such a way that BC becomes a creditor towards Fairline rather than BW (the buyer) just illustrates there is some dodgy dealings going on..... if indeed BC is a creditor towards Fairline. I wonder what the creditors who have actually delivered goods and services to Fairline - while it was owned by BC - think about any claims from BC? They'd all get less money in the end because of such a claim, and it's probably not even worth it to throw money at lawyers to contest it.
 
I still have a feeling there was a plot from the start with a third party waiting in the wings...

KevB said:
WM doing the dirty work for a third party who will pay WM handsomely when they buy the FL brand from WM and the third party is hailed the saviour as they resurrect FL leaner and meaner?
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petem said:
I had a call with a Fairline Director last week. They are excited about the future and in particular how they can do things differently and better under the new ownership. So I for one remain optomistic. I've been invited to a factory visit and to view the new Targa 53 production line, which will be cool.
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Any contact or comment from this "director" now?
 
longjohnsilver said:
Any contact or comment from this "director" now?
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Yep, having worked for the company for many years he is 'beyond sad' but remains hopeful that the business can be resurrected by someone. I imagine the rest of the senior management team share his feelings.

I have no idea what the owner and solitary formal Director (Mr Ahmed) thinks.
 
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