Ardenfour
Well-Known Member
Anyone know what kind of grease for a Facnor furler? And should I pack the unit so full it comes out the other end?, or just squeeze some onto the bearings?
Facnor furler grease
- Thread starter Ardenfour
- Start date
Mistroma
Well-Known Member
If it is an LS180 type swivel then you can't grease it. Older models might be different.
Mine started locking up a few years ago. I explained the problem and asked Facnor if they could send an exploded diagram so that I could dismantle it. They did this but I could only remove the top & bottom lip seals plus the filler sections for the foil. I asked for more detail and Facnor said it could only be dismantled by a dealer. I was told a new swivel would be 600 Euro but I'd get a discount as mine was only 3.5 years old.
Facnor suggested greasing it but the gap was too small to allow any grease to enter. They obviously knew little about the construction.
I had been rinsing with fresh water and putting some grease into the top swivel lip seal each winter to keep dust out of the unit. I also sealed it up each winter to keep it a bit cleaner but it still locked up a bit under pressure and the halyard would wrap around the foil.
I removed the swivel, rinsed through with diesel several times over a few days and let it bake in the sun for quite a long time to dry out. I flooded the top with Holts pro-lube and that was thin enough to enter the bearing housing. Then I re-assembled the 4 parts I'd removed (2 lip seals and 2 filler/spacer parts for foil). Huge amount of black grit came out with the diesel.
It worked perfectly for about 2.5 seasons before starting to show signs of sticking again. I'm going to repeat the same exercise next year and also increase the pull angle for the halyard as I think that may be slightly less than 15 degrees.
Mine started locking up a few years ago. I explained the problem and asked Facnor if they could send an exploded diagram so that I could dismantle it. They did this but I could only remove the top & bottom lip seals plus the filler sections for the foil. I asked for more detail and Facnor said it could only be dismantled by a dealer. I was told a new swivel would be 600 Euro but I'd get a discount as mine was only 3.5 years old.
Facnor suggested greasing it but the gap was too small to allow any grease to enter. They obviously knew little about the construction.
I had been rinsing with fresh water and putting some grease into the top swivel lip seal each winter to keep dust out of the unit. I also sealed it up each winter to keep it a bit cleaner but it still locked up a bit under pressure and the halyard would wrap around the foil.
I removed the swivel, rinsed through with diesel several times over a few days and let it bake in the sun for quite a long time to dry out. I flooded the top with Holts pro-lube and that was thin enough to enter the bearing housing. Then I re-assembled the 4 parts I'd removed (2 lip seals and 2 filler/spacer parts for foil). Huge amount of black grit came out with the diesel.
It worked perfectly for about 2.5 seasons before starting to show signs of sticking again. I'm going to repeat the same exercise next year and also increase the pull angle for the halyard as I think that may be slightly less than 15 degrees.
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davidej
Well-Known Member
Good timing, this thread,
I have just taken down my Facnor foil because halliard wrap has unwound the forestay and i now have the top swivel on my workbench.
Mine is a SD model. In my ignorance, I had assumed the top swivel had plastic bearings so it has had 10 yrs of neglect.
I have taken off the top cover, which reveals the top bearing - no sign of any lip seal. It doesn't seem too bad and I was wondering if some type of dry lubricant, Silicon or PTFE, might be better.
I can see a large circlip which I assume would enable me to take this race out and get to the bottom one.
I slightly paled when the dealer said he couldn't supply new bearings but could have the latest swivel (with plastic balls) for a mere £565 plus VAT and carriage.
I have just taken down my Facnor foil because halliard wrap has unwound the forestay and i now have the top swivel on my workbench.
Mine is a SD model. In my ignorance, I had assumed the top swivel had plastic bearings so it has had 10 yrs of neglect.
I have taken off the top cover, which reveals the top bearing - no sign of any lip seal. It doesn't seem too bad and I was wondering if some type of dry lubricant, Silicon or PTFE, might be better.
I can see a large circlip which I assume would enable me to take this race out and get to the bottom one.
I slightly paled when the dealer said he couldn't supply new bearings but could have the latest swivel (with plastic balls) for a mere £565 plus VAT and carriage.
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Ardenfour
Well-Known Member
Thanks for replies. I have an R type, same as SD, but different foil profile. Apparently the swivel should be rinsed with water, the drum packed with grease - a bit odd,since both contain the same type bearings, stainless balls in a stainless cup and cone arrangement. Both my swivel and drum are presently completely dismantled, all circlips out, balls etc. But of a struggle getting the circlips out to release the bearings, they're quite chunky affairs. The drum seems a decent enough design if the lip seals keep the water out, but once they leak the spring steel circlips start to corrode, and this rust then begins to flake off and contaminate the bearings which then jam. This especially applies to the swivel, which has no seals and Facnor say don't lubricate. I have read of replacing the swivel balls with Delrin or Torlin equivalents, and the circlips with stainless versions, which may improve on the original. Same could be done with the drum, then omitting the seals to allow freshwater rinsing. I have 3 bearings in the drum so all starts to get a bit pricey
cmedsailor
Well-Known Member
Best lubricant to use, BY FAR, is"Mclube one drop" (after washing well with some penetrating oil and then lots of hot water). Excellent product made especially for ball bearings.
davidej
Well-Known Member
We may be at slight cross purposes here. I am talking about the top swivel and others about the drum (lower) end.
I have taken the bull by the horns, extracted one of the giant circlips and now I have the tracks and balls in a little tray.
Eurospar tell me they are all steel (not stainless) and so it looks. There doesn't appear to be any rust/pitting but the tracks are noticeably worn. It is easy to get new balls but Eurospar can't supply the races. Simply Bearings have ordinary steel, s/s and delryn balls so which should I choose
They tell me to use winch grease but presumablt not if I choose delryn
I have taken the bull by the horns, extracted one of the giant circlips and now I have the tracks and balls in a little tray.
Eurospar tell me they are all steel (not stainless) and so it looks. There doesn't appear to be any rust/pitting but the tracks are noticeably worn. It is easy to get new balls but Eurospar can't supply the races. Simply Bearings have ordinary steel, s/s and delryn balls so which should I choose
They tell me to use winch grease but presumablt not if I choose delryn
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Ardenfour
Well-Known Member
View attachment 54692
Can't be plain steel - how long would they last under Facnor's instruction to only rinse with water, and not to use any lubrication or grease
Here's a picture of the contents of the drum - the swivel bearings are the same type and material, but a bit smaller.
Can't be plain steel - how long would they last under Facnor's instruction to only rinse with water, and not to use any lubrication or grease
Here's a picture of the contents of the drum - the swivel bearings are the same type and material, but a bit smaller.
davidej
Well-Known Member
Well that is what Eurospar (the UK agent)s tell me and from the look of it they are right.
Anyway, since Eurospar said the spares aren't. available, I emailed the factory. A reply within two hours and after giving a card no, a service kit is on the way.
A result or what?
Anyway, since Eurospar said the spares aren't. available, I emailed the factory. A reply within two hours and after giving a card no, a service kit is on the way.
A result or what?
Ardenfour
Well-Known Member
Good stuff! So what's in the kit then? And how much?
Ardenfour
Well-Known Member
Incidently, your balls look blacker than mine - have you tried a magnet on them?
davidej
Well-Known Member
I have cleaned them up a bit more and tried a magnet. I think you may be right -s/s.
Makes me worry about Eurospar. I might have misunderstood what they said about the steel, but they say use winch grease and you say Facnor don't. They say spares not available, Facnor say they are.
Cost of service kit -£150 plus vat and carriage so will come out near £200.
Makes me worry about Eurospar. I might have misunderstood what they said about the steel, but they say use winch grease and you say Facnor don't. They say spares not available, Facnor say they are.
Cost of service kit -£150 plus vat and carriage so will come out near £200.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
I can imagine that they do not necessarily make those bearing sets as a special.
have you considered taking them to a bearing supplier .Near me is a firm called J & M belts & what they do not know about bearings is not worth knowing.
There must be loads of others throughout the UK that you could actually go & see with the bits
have you considered taking them to a bearing supplier .Near me is a firm called J & M belts & what they do not know about bearings is not worth knowing.
There must be loads of others throughout the UK that you could actually go & see with the bits
Ardenfour
Well-Known Member
I trawled through bearing supplier websites, Simply Bearings, etc. The seals are standard off the shelf, got two the following day. Likewise balls available in a variety of materials, but no joy with the races.
dje67
Well-Known Member
Ive posted this on a couple of threads on the same subject - hope it helps.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?381020-Facnor-SD165-Upper-Swivel-Bearings
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?381020-Facnor-SD165-Upper-Swivel-Bearings
Ardenfour
Well-Known Member
Thanks dje67, I'd come across your posts already, many thanks. Do you still have the Delrin balls in your swivel? - how is it holding out? Where did you get stainless circlips?, I'm having trouble finding a supplier.
davidej
Well-Known Member
I just read this other thread which I hadn't come across before.
Someone posted that the Facnor manual statesthat the top swivel should not be greased - only washed with water. This differs from what Eurospar told me. I can only find the installation instructions online so how reliable is this statement?
Remembering my schoolboy days of bycycle maintenance, when my service kit arrives I am thinking of 'sticking' the balls in the outer race with grease before assembling it. I can't think of any other way to keep them in place. If grease is not required, I have to wash it out afterwards. Do you have any better suggestions as how to assemble it?
Someone posted that the Facnor manual statesthat the top swivel should not be greased - only washed with water. This differs from what Eurospar told me. I can only find the installation instructions online so how reliable is this statement?
Remembering my schoolboy days of bycycle maintenance, when my service kit arrives I am thinking of 'sticking' the balls in the outer race with grease before assembling it. I can't think of any other way to keep them in place. If grease is not required, I have to wash it out afterwards. Do you have any better suggestions as how to assemble it?
Ardenfour
Well-Known Member
If you're not going to grease them in use, then stick them in with honey - will wash out after assembly
davidej
Well-Known Member
What a sweet idea!
Are you absolutely sure they shouldn't be greased?
Are you absolutely sure they shouldn't be greased?
dje67
Well-Known Member
Here's another link that might help, with some part numbers/suppliers...
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...-of-forestay&p=4652888&highlight=#post4652888
Love the idea of using honey to hold the ballbearings in - from memory I had many goes at this! And kept finding lost ball bearings randomly in corners of the kitchen for months after.
2 seasons have now passed since I did mine and I've not noticed any degradation of the swivel. In fact, I've not even dropped the sail to clean it, so it seems pretty robust so far.
Martin&Rene
Well-Known Member
This is when you think such forums are great. The top swivel on my SD furler had started to stick and I ended up with a halyard wrap and I was getting very worried that I would not be able to furl the jib one time when it was blowing hard. Got the £600 quote for a replacement, grimaced a bit and started to look at these forums.
Having read a number of threads, I opened up the top swivel and could see a pile of black balls. Perhaps having a berth a mile downwind from the Hunterston coal terminal has not been ideal, but thankfully this operation is running down. Just kept on squirting a lubricant on it and spinning the swivel and they all cleaned up well. I have now had to go back to controlling the furling line when I pull the jib out as the whole assembly runs so smoothly. Will repeat and use Mclube in the near future.
Unfortunately my joy of saving a lot of money was short-lived, as some characters stole my outboard engine that night (See Disturbing Theft on Scuttlebutt), so it is a case of you win some and you lose some.
Having read a number of threads, I opened up the top swivel and could see a pile of black balls. Perhaps having a berth a mile downwind from the Hunterston coal terminal has not been ideal, but thankfully this operation is running down. Just kept on squirting a lubricant on it and spinning the swivel and they all cleaned up well. I have now had to go back to controlling the furling line when I pull the jib out as the whole assembly runs so smoothly. Will repeat and use Mclube in the near future.
Unfortunately my joy of saving a lot of money was short-lived, as some characters stole my outboard engine that night (See Disturbing Theft on Scuttlebutt), so it is a case of you win some and you lose some.
