Extra Space?

[beermonkey]

Is there an upper limit to how big is big enough, accepting that if you have 10 crew you need significantly more space than if you're single-handing, however, given the collective experience/knowledge here, has anyone ever regretted "buying bigger"?

Is there a collective rule of thumb on 'manageable' space/LOA v maintenance costs, ease of handling etc?

 

[Yngmar]

The collective rule of thumb is that the boat is always too small when it comes to storage space, and always too big when it comes to paying the marina fees, cruising taxes, insurance or yard fees. Handling is less of a problem and can be sorted by throwing more money at it in the form of thrusters, headsets for the crew if the bow is out of shouting range or hired crew to drive it for you

If you have a bigger boat, you'll end up carrying full size bikes instead of folding, perhaps even motor scooters, scuba gear and a compressor, a huge dinghy in a garage, a comprehensive set of powertools, drill press, lathe, jetski, helicopter, waterplane etc.

Either way, all cruising boats end up stuffed to the brim with things you think you can't live without.

One thing that's making a big difference is how well the boat is laid out for storage. You'll find some charter designs with barely any storage but huge open spaces, and purpose built cruising boats with narrow saloons but tons of storage lockers all around.

 

[RichardS]

Unless you're thinking of going really large, always keep below 12 metres as that's the sweet spot for LOA vs marina/mooring/statutory charges.

Or go larger but put 11.99m on your SSR, like ours.

Richard

 

[Stingo]

Unless you're thinking of going really large, always keep below 12 metres as that's the sweet spot for LOA vs marina/mooring/statutory charges.

Or go larger but put 11.99m on your SSR, like ours.

Richard

+1

 

[RobbieW]

Unless you're thinking of going really large, always keep below 12 metres as that's the sweet spot for LOA vs marina/mooring/statutory charges.

Or go larger but put 11.99m on your SSR, like ours.

Richard

Which is fine till you go somewhere like Sant Carles where they started measuring boats due to owners taking the piss. Or you moor on a long pontoon in a space designed for the SSR length but you dont fit because the dinghy hanging off the back puts another 1.5m on the LOA

 

[duncan99210]

Unless you're thinking of going really large, always keep below 12 metres as that's the sweet spot for LOA vs marina/mooring/statutory charges.

Or go larger but put 11.99m on your SSR, like ours.

Richard

Or you go to Port-Vendres and check in. Get charged for over 12m despite the boat being described in the SSR as 11.95m and by the builders as 11.97m. On asking why, the port captain said he knew how long Bavaria 38s are and it’s over 12m.....
Addressing the original question, I was given sage advice by my uncle, who’s lived aboard a boat for the last thirty years or so. He said to buy the biggest boat we could afford that we felt comfortable handling. So we did, and it’s worked out well.

 

[geem]

I understand that the average boat size in the Caribbean is 45ft. This may be a little out of date so I guess by now the average may be a little bigger.
This would be a large boat in the UK. Our old fashioned Van de Stadt at 44ft has a huge amount of storage for its length. No modern production boat can compare for the same length but we have only two double beds and a set of bunk beds. Not the multiple berths seen in many charter designs. We liveaboard for more time than we spend in our house and with just the two of us onboard it is a very good compromise between running costs add living space. We rarely go into marinas so not a large cost for us. Sailing comfort and motion are more important to us and space for toys. We carry lots of gear such as folding bikes, nesting 3.5m hard dinghy, 15hp and 10hp engines, diving gear, sailing rig for dinghy, paddleboard, kitesurfing gear, sewing machine, etc! Every space is full and we are always reviewing what we need onboard. I think that you fill what ever space you have.

 

[beermonkey]

I understand that the average boat size in the Caribbean is 45ft. This may be a little out of date so I guess by now the average may be a little bigger.
This would be a large boat in the UK. Our old fashioned Van de Stadt at 44ft has a huge amount of storage for its length. No modern production boat can compare for the same length but we have only two double beds and a set of bunk beds. Not the multiple berths seen in many charter designs. We liveaboard for more time than we spend in our house and with just the two of us onboard it is a very good compromise between running costs add living space. We rarely go into marinas so not a large cost for us. Sailing comfort and motion are more important to us and space for toys. We carry lots of gear such as folding bikes, nesting 3.5m hard dinghy, 15hp and 10hp engines, diving gear, sailing rig for dinghy, paddleboard, kitesurfing gear, sewing machine, etc! Every space is full and we are always reviewing what we need onboard. I think that you fill what ever space you have.

Thanks for the answers folks, I kinda knew it was a 'how long is a piece of string' type question! It does seem that the answer will be how well laid out/LOA and handleability v cost and a healthy dose of "do I LIKE her".

 

[Bobc]

I was given sage advice by my uncle, who’s lived aboard a boat for the last thirty years or so. He said to buy the biggest boat we could afford that we felt comfortable handling. So we did, and it’s worked out well.

I'd agree with that.

 

[differentroads]

For me it comes down to how much you can afford to spend keeping a boat. I'd love a 40 footer but berthing and maintenance will be beyond my wife's and my pensions combined. My 34 footer is only just big enough for the two of us living on board all year round in enough comfort and with piles of gear (I moan abour her 12 pairs of shoes, she retorts about tools and sails that I never actually use, we tacitly agree to drop the subject). Offbeat is just right for us to afford to live our dream without having to stop and earn money on the way.
So my advice is buy a boat as big as you can afford to keep, not as big as you can afford to buy.

 

[Bobc]

I understand that the average boat size in the Caribbean is 45ft. This may be a little out of date so I guess by now the average may be a little bigger.
This would be a large boat in the UK.

We have a 50ft which was in the Caribbean, but we now keep it in the UK. It is big but not unmanageable.

 

[geem]

We have a 50ft which was in the Caribbean, but we now keep it in the UK. It is big but not unmanageable.

When we kept our boat in Pwllheli Marina a few years ago we were the fourth largest sailing boat. In the Caribbean we were less than average��

 

[Kelpie]

We've recently moved up to 39ft. A swing mooring costs the same for us regardless of length, and she's coppercoated so hopefully that will take off some of the burden as well.
She's a more old fashioned boat with oodles of locker space. We looked at similar sized more modern designs (well, they were from the 80s, not the 70s) and felt that the living spaces were nicer but the stowage was nowhere near as good.
At the moment, it seems inconceivable that we will ever manage to fill all the space. But we bumped into a couple who own an identical boat and they seem to be managing. They'd moved aboard straight from their flat, without seemingly getting rid of very much. Right down to the full size upright Dyson, which is overkill for a boat but as they said, they already owned it, so why not?

 

[Tony Cross]

Thanks for the answers folks, I kinda knew it was a 'how long is a piece of string' type question! It does seem that the answer will be how well laid out/LOA and handleability v cost and a healthy dose of "do I LIKE her".

When looking at boats you'd be much better of using a healthy dose of "what DON'T I like about her". Buy a boat with your head not your heart.

Regarding length, it depends where you plan to cruise and whether you'll be crossing oceans. I think (though I've not been there in a yacht) that in the Caribbean 40ft is likely to be small and 50ft pretty average, whilst in many places in the Med 40ft is average and 50ft is large. There are certainly many smaller places in the Med that you won't be able to get a 50ft yacht into.

It also depends on what sort of cruising you plan to do. A 38ft boat will feel huge when cruising for a few months in the summer, but if you're living on her in the winter she'll seem tiny and cramped. If you plan to cruise the Med a stern cockpit with a sugar-scoop is ideal for the stern-to mooring here, but if you plan on crossing oceans you'll probably want a high centre cockpit.

I hope you're not thinking of buying a big boat and using crew, and that the "10 crew" comment was in jest? We met a lovely couple some years ago on an Oyster 64, a magnificent boat and like a palace inside, but the experienced (68-year old) owner needs a hired crew member to help him manage the boat. They then found that they were putting in to port all the time, renting a car and a hotel room for the crew, just so they could be alone and relax on their own boat....

 

[Bobc]

but if you plan on crossing oceans you'll probably want a high centre cockpit

Why? Not sure I agree with that. The motion is much better in an aft cockpit. You are closer to the waterline and further away from any spray.

 

[Tony Cross]

Why? Not sure I agree with that. The motion is much better in an aft cockpit. You are closer to the waterline and further away from any spray.

I think most people feel more secure in a centre cockpit, but as with everything else it's all down to personal preference. My main point to the OP was that they need to establish what kind of cruising they plan to do, and where they want to go, first.

 

[RobbieW]

I think most people feel more secure in a centre cockpit, but as with everything else it's all down to personal preference. My main point to the OP was that they need to establish what kind of cruising they plan to do, and where they want to go, first.

A low centre cockpit, like a Rival 41 , sure; but most of the high cockpit, low coaming boats I've sailed leave me feeling quite insecure

 

[beermonkey]

I'd agree with that.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Why? Not sure I agree with that. The motion is much better in an aft cockpit. You are closer to the waterline and further away from any spray.

I have to say after many years sailing a aft cockpit boat and now having a CC , I think there not much difference other then the securities and privacy. Mind you I don't suffer from any kind of sea sickness.

 

[beermonkey]

When looking at boats you'd be much better of using a healthy dose of "what DON'T I like about her". Buy a boat with your head not your heart.

Regarding length, it depends where you plan to cruise and whether you'll be crossing oceans. I think (though I've not been there in a yacht) that in the Caribbean 40ft is likely to be small and 50ft pretty average, whilst in many places in the Med 40ft is average and 50ft is large. There are certainly many smaller places in the Med that you won't be able to get a 50ft yacht into.

It also depends on what sort of cruising you plan to do. A 38ft boat will feel huge when cruising for a few months in the summer, but if you're living on her in the winter she'll seem tiny and cramped. If you plan to cruise the Med a stern cockpit with a sugar-scoop is ideal for the stern-to mooring here, but if you plan on crossing oceans you'll probably want a high centre cockpit.

I hope you're not thinking of buying a big boat and using crew, and that the "10 crew" comment was in jest? We met a lovely couple some years ago on an Oyster 64, a magnificent boat and like a palace inside, but the experienced (68-year old) owner needs a hired crew member to help him manage the boat. They then found that they were putting in to port all the time, renting a car and a hotel room for the crew, just so they could be alone and relax on their own boat....

Thanks Tony, and completely agree on the "what don't you like" as a rule of thumb. I've learnt over the years that if she makes me smile every time I see her, then she's probably to one for me, and I'd be willing to work with the little niggles!

As to the cruising plan - it's open ended. I'm looking for my next full time 'home', which I expect to take me voyaging for the next few decades, so yes - the 10 crew was a jest. I've had the pleasure of sailing without owning for most of my life, apart from fireballs, bosuns, toppers, laser etc from my youth - and I'm pretty sure none of that ownership experience translates!