Extending the range of your Torqeedo outboard with a portable Honda Generator

zikzik said:
Maybe. But for boats, specifically the Torquedo outboard, I find the long recharging time a bigger problem than the running time.
It must be possible now to introduce fast chargers. The power tool industry is down to 15 minuet charging in the best cases.
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but, for real jobs its still 110v machines battery is ok for light / small jobs where power is unavailable or just not worth the bother of getting all the cables & transformers out of the van.
electric outboards place is on a lake for fishing & has no place on tidal waters, imo
 
Not really.
Cordless tools are the most used and the biggest sellers by far - mostly drills of course - and now a high proportion of high spec, high priced models that sell to the trade. High power mains units of all types have their place of course. There is no difference in power output between the same 230 and 110v model. Only about 20% of ac power tools sold in the UK are 110v.
My Torqueedo 1003 has about the same power as my old Honda 2.3. But not the range of course. That does not limit it to a lake. But the recharge time following use limits how often I can use it on my tender on the same trip.
 
Thanks. I will look. When I tried to get the 'faster' charger announced a year or more ago, the dealer I went into had never seen one.
 
Floyd Raser said:
Well, difficult to define really but it just became obvious that you clearly have no interest in the subject of this thread but you are just posting negativity towards it. You and others.
Waste of everyone's time really.
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Tranona, Antarctic Pilot and I are being realistic, not negative, and to say we have no interest is untrue. You seem to have lost interest in a discussion about the subject now and gone off on a weird angle of irrelevant posts.

So lets have some real figures from you then. I'll ask the same question that I asked Dan - what size boat, how far, how fast? Where will the electricity come from?
 
zikzik said:
Not really.
Cordless tools are the most used and the biggest sellers by far - mostly drills of course - and now a high proportion of high spec, high priced models that sell to the trade. High power mains units of all types have their place of course. There is no difference in power output between the same 230 and 110v model. Only about 20% of ac power tools sold in the UK are 110v.
My Torqueedo 1003 has about the same power as my old Honda 2.3. But not the range of course. That does not limit it to a lake. But the recharge time following use limits how often I can use it on my tender on the same trip.
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I do have some experence in construction industry :encouragement:
 
prv said:
On a point of order, I disagree with this one. There are an awful lot of cars, mostly small hatchbacks, that spend their whole lives trundling between home, work, the local supermarket, perhaps the kids' school or a gym, and spend all night every night outside the owner's house. There might be other issues, but there are no lifestyle problems with such cars going electric.

Pete
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What explains the absolutely tiny uptake then, despite the guvmint subsidising them heavily? I read a report in one of the electronics trade magazines that float around my desk when I work that Nissan had only sold 400 odd in the UK over its whole lifetime up to that point. I can't find the reference to that data now.
 
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This old thread is about the Torqeedo outboard. In response to the new subject of electric boat propulsion there was a series of articles in Classic Boat Magazine, April 2008 onwards, on the subject. Columnist Niki Perryman converted her Lion Class sloop to electric propulsion. Her and her husband were long term cruisers. The articles go through the joy of the conversion to the dismay at the impracticality of what they had done. They eventually refitted the Diesel engine to their boat.
Battery technology has improved since 2008, but inboard diesels are going to be around for a long time I think.
 
AngusMcDoon said:
... lithium is a nasty dangerous metal with limited supply. It's difficult to extract and dangerous to handle. ..
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... and it really doesn't like water.... It's the lowest Atomic number of the Alkali Metals (sodium, potassium, calcium etc) and the "activity" level (remember dropping a pellet of sodium or potassium into water in Chem lessons?) is higher, the lower the Atomic number....
 
Difficult to know whether to feel encouraged or perplexed by so much determined back-and-forth!

There is, I hope we agree, an overwhelming tendency for each man to impose his own familiar requirements on the possibilities and the undoubted limits of electricity storage.

So for anyone who customarily fires up a diesel engine to push through tide gates or to get a grumbling family back to the berth at an agreeable hour on the day you'd promised they'd get home, present electric propulsion options are almost certain to disappoint, consistently and totally unacceptably...

...and anyone who is (and has always been) content with oil-assisted yachting, probably won't ever convert to a form of auxiliary which frequently isn't ready to use when required.

What surprises me is how invariably and determinedly these same guys always jump in, hoping to stamp out any suggestion that it might suit anyone with a more leisurely approach.

I sail a dinghy and I have oars on it. I don't use them often because the boat performs beautifully; so my sailing is primarily based on journey-planning which won't need any auxiliary power; but I'd never leave my oars ashore because if I ever really need an alternative to my excellent sails, I have one. Seems prudent to me, and it's been very satisfactory.

As I look at small cruisers, I'm not attracted by the prospect of reliance on an oily auxiliary. I've used them, I've benefited from their noisy convenience when they functioned as they should, I've been furious when they disappointed (and it has been known for blessed I/C engines not to work! ;))...but overall, I won't be starting in bigger boats in the usual way.

That puts me firmly in the margin, and I don't care. The weight, cost, range and lengthy recharging of electric set-ups make them completely unsuitable for oil-addicted yachtsmen...

...so I'd strongly advise them all not even to consider an electric auxiliary. They really won't like one. They might also be happier if they stop discussing such a dead-end idea.

But that doesn't, and won't close the book on the subject, however impractical and mystifying its appeal, for them. Now, I'm off for a relaxing sail. Sail. No hurry, fumes or noise. :encouragement:
 
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dancrane said:
Difficult to know whether to feel encouraged or perplexed by so much determined back-and-forth!

There is, I hope we agree, an overwhelming tendency for each man to impose his own familiar requirements on the possibilities and the undoubted limits of electricity storage.

So for anyone who customarily fires up a diesel engine to push through tide gates or to get a grumbling family back to the berth at an agreeable hour on the day you'd promised they'd get home, present electric propulsion options are almost certain to disappoint, consistently and totally unacceptably...

...and anyone who is (and has always been) content with oil-assisted yachting, probably won't ever convert to a form of auxiliary which frequently isn't ready to use when required.

What surprises me is how invariably and determinedly these same guys always jump in, hoping to stamp out any suggestion that it might suit anyone with a more leisurely approach.

I sail a dinghy and I have oars on it. I don't use them often because the boat performs beautifully; so my sailing is primarily based on journey-planning which won't need any auxiliary power; but I'd never leave my oars ashore because if I ever really need an alternative to my excellent sails, I have one. Seems prudent to me, and it's been very satisfactory.

As I look at small cruisers, I'm not attracted by the prospect of reliance on an oily auxiliary. I've used them, I've benefited from their noisy convenience when they functioned as they should, I've been furious when they disappointed (and it has been known for blessed I/C engines not to work! ;))...but overall, I won't be starting in bigger boats in the usual way.

That puts me firmly in the margin, and I don't care. The weight, cost, range and lengthy recharging of electric set-ups make them completely unsuitable for oil-addicted yachtsmen...

...so I'd strongly advise them all not even to consider an electric auxiliary. They really won't like one. They might also be happier if they stop discussing such a dead-end idea.

But that doesn't, and won't close the book on the subject, however impractical and mystifying its appeal, for them. Now, I'm off for a relaxing sail. Sail. No hurry, fumes or noise. :encouragement:
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I'm still be interested to know what type of boat and what use you have in mind for a electric power. If it's a dinghy and you never intend to use power for more than 30 minutes or 2 miles, that's fine. Just interested.

I guess we can all accept for your average Solent 36' BenJenBav it's not going to happen any time soon, but there are plenty of other ways to go sailing.
 
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Floyd Raser said:
Well, difficult to define really but it just became obvious that you clearly have no interest in the subject of this thread but you are just posting negativity towards it. You and others.
Waste of everyone's time really.
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Guess that means you are denial about the real problems that I (and others) are higlighting. Have not seen anything from you or anybody else) that leads one to think there is a solution to the so called "problem" - just a load of hot air.
 
Tranona said:
Guess that means you are denial about the real problems that I (and others) are higlighting. Have not seen anything from you or anybody else) that leads one to think there is a solution to the so called "problem" - just a load of hot air.
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At least two different discussions going on here - is an electric motor a good choice for a tender, and is an electric motor a good choice for the main propulsion.

As per my previous replies I think it's a great choice for the tender unless you habitually do journeys every couple of hours over a mile each way, which I suspect is not that common.

I have moored next to a new motor boat which was almost all electric - about 40 foot long with a roof consisting of solar panels. Great for a day out and back to the marina, and I presume range extended during the day in the Med by the solar panels, along with aircon and fridge. But to me not very practical.

Those who think that refilling the outboard with petrol is easier and quicker than recharging a battery haven't been in harbours and marinas where you would have to take a cab to a petrol station to fill up, assuming you want to go into a harbour at all rather than anchor.

But like anything boaty, you rationalise the toys you enjoy because the whole sport is illogical. What does bafffle me is people who love denigrating other peoples choices. I choose a quiet-ish engine that is so clean and light I can leave it on a cabin bunk, and that my wife always knows will start by just turning a handle. That limits my shore excursions to a couple of miles each way per morning or afternoon - which for me isn't a limit I've ever got near.

I can just, just imagine electric working as main propulsion on my old GK24 on the South Coast where it's agile enough to start sailing very soon after leaving a marina, but even with a much bigger bank of normal 12v batteries to back up the Lithium one, I would be limited to nights in marinas and couldn't really go anywhere on a calm day - so I don't think its practical for main propulsion for quite a while.
 
Perceived negativity

I'd like to go on the record to say that I'd LOVE to be able to use a non-polluting, oil-free source of auxiliary power on my boat, and have seriously looked at getting an electric car - and it was the high price (despite subsidies) and other financial issues (for example, you commonly only rent the batteries, not buy them, making an extra recurring charge that I'd like to do without) that put me off, not anything to do with charging regimes etc., which would fit into our usual usage patterns quite well.

I have no doubt that for what Dan wants to do, it is a viable solution for a light dinghy type of vessel.

However, I think that Dan and others need to remember that their choices are not everyone's choices. While I'd love to be able to sail in the way that Dan describes, with no time constraints and depending on sail alone as far as possible, given my current circumstances it isn't going to happen. My wife is still in full-time employment, enabling us to fund our sailing, and so we need to be as certain as possible we can get home on time. And the issues I mentioned about tidal gates are real ones; I can quite imagine that depending on sail alone on the west coast of Scotland would mean being willing to wait for days (if not weeks) to be sure of approaching the many tidal gates at the right state of tide for a safe passage (no problem once you're at the gate at the right time - the tide will take you faster than you can sail!). Just for example, Rathlin Island is only approachable for about an hour either side of slack water. Most of us sail yachts whose ability to make progress in light airs isn't wonderful, and certainly far less than Dan's well-restored dinghy, especially in a sea-way with residual swell.

I'm not rubbishing Dan's ideas - I think they might work for his situation, and more power to his elbow for thinking of it. But I'm trying to point out why they aren't a solution for most of us, and won't be any time soon. If we had a hydrogen economy, that would work for us (except that hydrogen would make petrol on board look safe :D). But it all comes down to energy storage density, and battery technology isn't even close to matching liquid fuels. Perhaps also worth noting that a battery technology that DID match the energy storage density of liquid fuels would probably be pretty unsafe - it's bad enough if you drop a screwdriver across the terminals of a lead-acid battery with 100 Ah stored, and current technology Lithium based batteries have a nasty habit of occasionally suffering from "thermal runaway" - in other words, they unexpectedly burst into flames! Imagine what it would be like if you had 10,000 Ah - and that's the sort of storage you'd need to be directly comparable with liquid fuels.
 
AngusMcDoon said:
What explains the absolutely tiny uptake then, despite the guvmint subsidising them heavily?
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Despite the subsidy, they're still blummin' expensive compared to a second-hand Micra :). I think that's the main one really.

People worry that they won't be able to drive it from Portsmouth to Manchester, even though they never ever do so in their current car either.

It's unusual and different and the British public do not like change.

A number of people at my office have them, though. A friend is having his new Leaf delivered in a couple of weeks.

I'm still very happy in my 2006 diesel Freelander :)

Pete
 
This thread has drifted a lot.
If we are talking about battery powered yacht auxiliaries, then it's a vast amount of dosh for batteries, which struggle to deliver the range we want.
If I'm serious about a cruising yacht auxiliary, I need it to get me home from Cherbourg or St Vaast when there is no wind.
I've done a good thousand miles up and down the South Coast in my youth with no engine at all. If you want a minimal engine for 'parking', maybe electric has possibilities.

For tenders, my view is that I would not want to change my inflatable+outboard for anything heavier.
Some places I want to go, it is very valuable that SWMBO and I can carry it up the beach, complete with outboard. Sometimes that means stepping over rocks or manmade obstacles, so don't try to fob me off with some heavy thing with wheels!
I'm happy to row for short, sheltered trips, but know when I need a minimum of 2hp to beat the wind, waves and tide.

OTOH, there is an extensive history of electric launches inland.
And a whole other world of electric water travel:
http://torpedodpv.com/models.php
 
lw395 said:
This thread has drifted a lot.


For tenders, my view is that I would not want to change my inflatable+outboard for anything heavier.
Some places I want to go, it is very valuable that SWMBO and I can carry it up the beach, complete with outboard. Sometimes that means stepping over rocks or manmade obstacles, so don't try to fob me off with some heavy thing with wheels!
I'm happy to row for short, sheltered trips, but know when I need a minimum of 2hp to beat the wind, waves and tide.
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The Torqeedo 1003S is perfect for you then :)
 
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