Extending anchor rode - recommendations please

[Irish Rover]

I'm in the process of buying a 13M x 6.7M power catamaran. It's currently equipped with a 25Kg s/s Delta anchor, a 1000w Lewmar windlass and 50M of 10mm galvanised chain. My current 10.3M powercat has 100M of 8mm chain and, while I've rarely put out more than 40/45M, there have been rare occasions when I've gone longer e.g. stern-to on the wall in Ermoupoli, Syros, where there's unbelievable surge from the ferries. So I want to extend and I'm not clear what's the best way to go. Options as I see it now;
- buy another 50M of chain and join them - which should I use for the connection and can I do it myself?, and
- buy 50M suitable rope and splice to the chain. I definitely won't be able to do the splicing myself but what type of rope should I buy, what thickness etc?
Which option is best for my boat?
Go easy on me, guys, I'm a sensitive soul.

 

[john_morris_uk]

The only chain joining links that have approval for strength etc are the ones from Crosby IIRC. Splicing anchorplait onto chain isn’t that difficult, but it won’t cost you much to have it done. I did my tender’s chain to rope splice a few weeks ago.

I hadn’t done this sort of splice before so I sat with my phone with a YouTube video playing.

 

[Tranona]

16mm Anchorplait spliced to 10mm. All explained here jimmygreen.com/content/286-liros-anchorplait-nylon

You can also use 3 strand using this simpler splice animatedknots.com/chain-splice-knot

 

[Neeves]

Will your existing windlass handle a mixed rode, ie will it handle rope? If it will not handle rope and you deploy all your chain and some or all rope you will then need to retrieve the rope portion by hand until you arrive at the chain. You will then need to feed the chain through the gypsy until the chain can be retrieved by the windlass. Your chain is 10mm - you might find hand retrieval is tough work.

A photo of the windlass might help - I'm 'concerned', or questioning, that the new yacht is quite large, the chain is beefy but the motor is only 1000 watts. If you can define which Lewmar windlass you have - that might help

I cannot fault John's and Tranona's replies except to add you should be able to source a Crosby 'C' joiner link fairly easily, Tecni, I think Bristol based, are one supplier. Google 'Vyv Cox' and find his website and you will get chapter and verse on Crosby's joiner links. Crosby is now part of Kito - Google 'Kito Crosby' and you may find they have a UK office.

It is expensive to consider changing chain size, to 8mm, as you would need a new gypsy (and they are very expensive). If you need new chain, or a new windlass - then is the time to considering a change (to 8mm) and then you might want a full 100m of 8mm.

Your anchor is 'OK" but you might find that investing in a more modern design allows you a more relaxing anchoring experience and the update on the Delta is the Lewmar Epsilon.

I'd let this thread run until it reaches 'end of life' and then summarise your thoughts in a new thread and you would receive more focussed comment on outstanding issues. As is stands you should be receiving a cross section of replies covering all of your ground tackle - you might enjoy some more focussed suggestions.

Jonathan

 

[simonfraser]

i'd go for rope to extend

my lewmar setup did not take in octoplait and have changed it to 3 strand nylon

 

[dunedin]

It depends whether the boat is a “keeper” or not? If just short term add some rope.
if a keeper, do like we did when we bought our boat - we binned 50m of new chain and a Delta anchor and replaced with 80m of new chain and a new generation anchor.
9 seasons later we have worn out the windlass, worn out the bow roller, and had to repaint the anchor twice - but never once regretted replacing the chain. Lots of occasions we were glad to have plenty of scope and no joint to worry about.
By changing early we got maximum benefit from the change.

 

[vyv_cox]

For 'free' anchoring in open water extending by rope is probably OK but be aware that the last links of chain will corrode rapidly in contact with wet rope.

For stern-to berthing in Greece and Turkey definitely do not go this route. Even if your windlass can handle rope it will not stow properly on recovery. At this testing moment going forward to sort out tangles is highly undesirable.

On top of that, the last thing you want when back to a wall is an elastic rode. In order to avoid leaving the chain on the windlass I use a short, heavy 'snubber' that does not stretch. See here Snubbers. Bottom of the page.

 

[Irish Rover]

I should have said I'm in Türkiye, the boat is in Croatia, and I won't be seeing it again until mid April when I go to prepare for my long delivery trip. I imagine I won't be able to get Jimmy Green anchorplait in Croatia and I've no idea if I'll find a Crosby link. With all the photos I have I don't have a clear one of the windlass but the Lewmar website says all theirs will handle rope. The add for the boat says 1,000W, but I do have a photo which shows it's actually a 1,500w Quick motor.

 

[Irish Rover]

For 'free' anchoring in open water extending by rope is probably OK but be aware that the last links of chain will corrode rapidly in contact with wet rope.

For stern-to berthing in Greece and Turkey definitely do not go this route. Even if your windlass can handle rope it will not stow properly on recovery. At this testing moment going forward to sort out tangles is highly undesirable.

On top of that, the last thing you want when back to a wall is an elastic rode. In order to avoid leaving the chain on the windlass I use a short, heavy 'snubber' that does not stretch. See here Snubbers. Bottom of the page.

I guess that settles it then. Thanks. I'll probably just buy 80M of chain rather than joining it.

 

[vyv_cox]

Probably the best solution in the circumstances. I carried 50 metres when I first entered the Med. This had always been sufficient in Irish and North Seas but came up short a few times in Italy and Greece. I replaced it with 65 metres that has always been enough, although I understand that some anchorages in Turkey, where I have never sailed, can require more.

 

[MontyMariner]

Options as I see it now;

If you haven't already sold, swap the chains over between old and new.
Ah! foiled, one is 10mm t'other is 8mm

 

[Irish Rover]

If you haven't already sold, swap the chains over between old and new.
Ah! foiled, one is 10mm t'other is 8mm

+ boats a very long way apart - Türkiye and Croatia

 

[MontyMariner]

+ boats a very long way apart - Türkiye and Croatia

Two boats! I didn't know I was conversing with an oligarch

 

[V1701]

Two boats! I didn't know I was conversing with an oligarch

I don't care about his boats or his wealth, it's his passport I'm envious of...

 

[Irish Rover]

Two boats! I didn't know I was conversing with an oligarch

Lucky for you, lad, I was able to find that word on Google, or you'd be getting a lick of me shillelagh. It looked kinda rude and I didn't like the look of the fella in the black glasses either.

 

[Neeves]

The Crosby 'C' link is quite reliable. To use you need a big hammer, the 'C' link is tough (its high tensile steel). You need to effect the connection on shore (NOT on the deck). You need something to use as an anvil (under the 'C' link - another hammer might do). I'd find a decent HT steel bolt in your local hardware store to use as a punch for when you peen the 'connectors' of the 'C' link (I think peen is the word).

'shillelagh' is that the Irish version of our (Australian) 'Shiela'? -

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

vyv_cox​

Vyv, I forget - are there 2 'metric' versions of 10mm chain (or is it 8mm?) and if so Irish needs to ensure he has the compatible version which will be on the windlass gypsy or he needs to take some of the chain on the new yacht to make sure it matches with what he buys to extend the rode. Does this also impact the 'C' link.

Apologies if its only relevant for 8mm chain.

Jonathan

 

[john_morris_uk]

vyv_cox​

Vyv, I forget - are there 2 'metric' versions of 10mm chain (or is it 8mm?) and if so Irish needs to ensure he has the compatible version which will be on the windlass gypsy or he needs to take some of the chain on the new yacht to make sure it matches with what he buys to extend the rode. Does this also impact the 'C' link.

Apologies if its only relevant for 8mm chain.

Jonathan

It’s 10mm chain that has two versions. (I know this because we have 10mm chain and I had to do the special measurements when I bought new!)

 

[vyv_cox]

vyv_cox​

Vyv, I forget - are there 2 'metric' versions of 10mm chain (or is it 8mm?) and if so Irish needs to ensure he has the compatible version which will be on the windlass gypsy or he needs to take some of the chain on the new yacht to make sure it matches with what he buys to extend the rode. Does this also impact the 'C' link.

Apologies if its only relevant for 8mm chain.

Jonathan

Yes, in only 10 mm chain the ISO and DIN dimensions differ. Gypsies are usually stamped with the version they are sized for.

 

[Neeves]

I'm in the process of buying a 13M x 6.7M power catamaran. It's currently equipped with a 25Kg s/s Delta anchor, a 1000w Lewmar windlass and 50M of 10mm galvanised chain. My current 10.3M powercat has 100M of 8mm chain and, while I've rarely put out more than 40/45M, there have been rare occasions when I've gone longer e.g. stern-to on the wall in Ermoupoli, Syros, where there's unbelievable surge from the ferries. So I want to extend and I'm not clear what's the best way to go. Options as I see it now;
- buy another 50M of chain and join them - which should I use for the connection and can I do it myself?, and
- buy 50M suitable rope and splice to the chain. I definitely won't be able to do the splicing myself but what type of rope should I buy, what thickness etc?
Which option is best for my boat?
Go easy on me, guys, I'm a sensitive soul.

Thanks to JohnM and Vyv for confirmation of the confusion surrounding 10mm chain size. I confess I could have looked it up but I was pressed for time and did not want Irish to rush off and buy the wrong chain - so took the easy option.

Irish,

You seem to have decided to extend the chain, which I too think is the best option. But as confirmed 10mm metric chain is available in 2 size specifications and you CANNOT mix and match. The gypsy will not accept the chain for which it is not suited. If you buy the wrong 10mm the chandler might refuse to take it back.

If you take the gypsy off, the new yacht, the specification of the chain will be engraved either round the circumference or on one of the two surfaces of the gypsy that are installed face to face. Some one who knows Quick windlass might be able to advise if the chain spec and size is on the exterior rim of the gypsy or on the faces of the 2 parts. If the spec is on the rim you might be able to define which 10mm you have, but there again it might not be easy to read. The other option is to measure the chain link size on the new yacht or cut off 3 links and take them to the chandler when you are ready to invest. There is a further option and that is find the invoice for the windlass and/or chain and the specification might be in the documentation. I prefer belt and braces and would cut off 3 links and look for the specification on the gypsy.

Chain comes in different strengths, made from wire of different strengths. 10mm either of the size specs DIN or ISO - you will be perfectly safe with G30 chain but you might be offered G40 (which is becoming fashionable). G70 would be OTT. I say fashionable as historically chain did fail (commonly due to poor manufacture (quality control) but chain failure is now almost unheard of now (and historically most people have used G30), so my conclusion is G40 is unnecessary. I can commend your reading of Vyv's website on his testing of chain - Chinese chain has proven to be of acceptable quality. If you want re-assurance - CMP's Titan chain is available in Greece, so might be available in nearby locations. CMP have a factory China where they make both their Titan chain (and Rocna anchors). I have tested CMP's chain and cannot fault it. I'm less enamoured of their Titan shackles, specifically their Black Pin shackles and suggest you buy shackles from Tecni who stock the Crosby product. For anyone buying shackles in Oz, there are Titan shackles supplied by Titan lifting (named before CMP entered the market) - they are fine (but I still recommend shackles from Crosby). Shackles as good as those from Crosby, eg YOKE, Campbell, Peerless are available but difficult to source.

Jonathan