Extending anchor chain with warp

[Sticky Fingers]

My Princess 460 has 30m of 10mm ISO chain and a Lewmar electric windlass. That’s enough for the Solent but not much good in the Channel Islands. I’m thinking of extending the scope using warp spliced onto the chain.

Couple of things…

1. What type and size of warp to choose, suitable for anchoring overnight in relatively benign conditions?
2. What’s the best splice to use to attach the warp to the chain?
3. Will the windlass pull through the warp and splice OK or are there problems to be expected?

Ok that’s three things.

Idea and info welcome.

 

[Hurricane]

I would replace it with more chain.
I know mine is bigger but I've got 150m of 12mm chain.
Never regretted upgrading it.

 

[rafiki_]

My Princess 460 has 30m of 10mm ISO chain and a Lewmar electric windlass. That’s enough for the Solent but not much good in the Channel Islands. I’m thinking of extending the scope using warp spliced onto the chain.

Couple of things…

1. What type and size of warp to choose, suitable for anchoring overnight in relatively benign conditions?
2. What’s the best splice to use to attach the warp to the chain?
3. Will the windlass pull through the warp and splice OK or are there problems to be expected?

Ok that’s three things.

Idea and info welcome.

You should already have the Bitter End attaching your chain to the boat. What is the rope, and how is this spliced/attached?

 

[Greg2]

1. There is a handy guide on the Jimmy Green Marine website
2. They also show some splices
3. Not sure about the windlass - ours has a drum as well so would assume that we would use that on the rope nd switch over when the chain comes inboard

I would tend to agree with Hurricane and would add more chain but that said the previous owner of our boat had a warp that he brought out only when required in deeper water.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

It’s a lashing, designed to be cut if necessary. Not useful in this scenario.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I would replace it with more chain.
I know mine is bigger but I've got 150m of 12mm chain.
Never regretted upgrading it.

Do you mean, extend with more chain and a chain link to join? Or buy a new 60m chain to replace the 30m? Both are options, but more money than the warp.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

1. There is a handy guide on the Jimmy Green Marine website
2. They also show some splices
3. Not sure about the windlass - ours has a drum as well so would assume that we would use that on the rope nd switch over when the chain comes inboard

I would tend to agree with Hurricane and would add more chain but that said the previous owner of our boat had a warp that he brought out only when required in deeper water.

Right, yes that last point is where I was going. Normally wouldn't ever need more than 30m. Thais for the JG link that’s useful.

 

[dunedin]

Do you mean, extend with more chain and a chain link to join? Or buy a new 60m chain to replace the 30m? Both are options, but more money than the warp.

Personally I would do the latter - replace rather than join.
Indeed I did precisely that when I got our boat, dumping 50m of new chain and replacing with 80m (we were passing through the Channel Islands but also go further afield and use the anchor a lot - your 60m is more normal).

On another thread I was recommended to use these guys and prices seem good for branded chain (but don’t yet have personal experience to recommend) Understand the various grades, sizes and qualities of anchor chain.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

That’s cheaper than Jimmy Green.

 

[Boathook]

Personally I would do the latter - replace rather than join.
Indeed I did precisely that when I got our boat, dumping 50m of new chain and replacing with 80m (we were passing through the Channel Islands but also go further afield and use the anchor a lot - your 60m is more normal).

On another thread I was recommended to use these guys and prices seem good for branded chain (but don’t yet have personal experience to recommend) Understand the various grades, sizes and qualities of anchor chain.

BGD is a good company. Also trade as EYE marine. Found them helpful when rung and sorting out what I required.

 

[Tranona]

16mm spliced would be OK and most windlasses will take rope and chain. Downside of splicing rope is that it spends most of its life sitting in the bottom of the anchor locker with the wet chain on top leading to corrosion of the end of the chain and regular replacement of the splice. An alternative for occasional use is to just shackle on the rope when you need it. Easier if you have a horizontal axis windlass with a warping drum so that you can bring the rope in first then switch to chain on the gypsy.

Having said all that, my money would be on 60m of all chain.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

16mm spliced would be OK and most windlasses will take rope and chain. Downside of splicing rope is that it spends most of its life sitting in the bottom of the anchor locker with the wet chain on top leading to corrosion of the end of the chain and regular replacement of the splice. An alternative for occasional use is to just shackle on the rope when you need it. Easier if you have a horizontal axis windlass with a warping drum so that you can bring the rope in first then switch to chain on the gypsy.

Having said all that, my money would be on 60m of all chain.

I’ve priced up both options and I’m coming round to that view too. I’d not considered the anchor locker environment.

Thanks to all for their input.

 

[Hurricane]

Do you mean, extend with more chain and a chain link to join? Or buy a new 60m chain to replace the 30m? Both are options, but more money than the warp.

For me, I would buy a new longer chain.
Yes, I know it is more expensive but there is nothing worse that sitting at anchor wondering if the anchor is holding or not.
I've been there.
Most motor boat builders (Princess included) don't provide big enough ground tackle.
I went up a gauge from 10mm to 12mm when I changed mine.
And a bigger anchor but thats another conversation of course!!
It is worth investing in that area - peace of mind and reduces potential disasters.

A fact that might help you spend that extra.
Galvanised chain looses its galvanising over the years so you either have to re-galvanise it or replace it.
Having a longer chain also means that you can reverse it as the galvanising deteriorates
The bitter end bit stays, in relatively, good condition.

How good is the chain that you have - any sign of rust?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

For me, I would buy a new longer chain.
Yes, I know it is more expensive but there is nothing worse that sitting at anchor wondering if the anchor is holding or not.
I've been there.
Most motor boat builders (Princess included) don't provide big enough ground tackle.
It is worth investing in that area - peace of mind and reduces potential disasters.

A fact that might help you spend that extra.
Galvanised chain looses its galvanising over the years so you either have to re-galvanise it or replace it.
Having a longer chain also means that you can reverse it as the galvanising deteriorates
The bitter end bit stays, in relatively, good condition.

How good is the chain that you have - any sign of rust?

Chain is good, was new 5 years ago. I’d not be thinking of replacing it due to rusting, so this is only about getting a 2x longer scope with a view to be able to go to the CIs this summer and anchor somewhere with an 8-10m tidal range. 30m of chain simply not enough.

 

[Pinnacle]

Chain is good, was new 5 years ago. I’d not be thinking of replacing it due to rusting, so this is only about getting a 2x longer scope with a view to be able to go to the CIs this summer and anchor somewhere with an 8-10m tidal range. 30m of chain simply not enough.

We did extend our chain with a galvanised link - one suggested by Vyv Cox. In the CI’s we were only ever on a bouy or tied to a pontoon, so not the same as you. I fear you may have to bite the bullet and buy a new chain.

 

[benjenbav]

Chain is good, was new 5 years ago. I’d not be thinking of replacing it due to rusting, so this is only about getting a 2x longer scope with a view to be able to go to the CIs this summer and anchor somewhere with an 8-10m tidal range. 30m of chain simply not enough.

How about buying another 30m of chain and taking it to a foundry to join rather than buying an off-the-shelf link?

 

[dunedin]

How about buying another 30m of chain and taking it to a foundry to join rather than buying an off-the-shelf link?

How much hassle does the OP want to avoid spending £700 on a single length of new chain? The 5 year old chain is probably half way through is non rusty life anyway. And somebody will probably buy the existing 30m (I had 4 enquiries in an hour for 30m of chain I am selling).
Any join would need to be done very carefully to avoid problems through the windlass. And when blowing a gale, don’t want to be thinking about the chain join.
IMHO

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Well, yes. I’m a bit anxious about the chain-joining links, probably undeservedly so given that the deployment of the 31st metre and onwards would be very rare. BJB’s suggestion would definitely work but it’s labour intensive. I’m coming down on the side of all-new chain, and if I can find a buyer for the old length so much the better.

 

[jfm]

I would generally be in the buying new chain camp, in st/steel, but it depends on your use case.

1.First on the mechanics, I have chain and rope on our Ribeye chase boat and can report that the electric winch transitions between the two perfectly, surprisingly well in fact, so as a technical point you can easily have a chain/rope combo.

2.As for the rope going rotten or manky (post #11), you can fix this in your use case by going to the anchor locker on the last anchor weigh of your CI holiday and pulling the rope to one side just as the gypsy has begun to wind the chain, and you can either remove the rope and keep it fresh for your next CI holiday, or at least you can pack it away tidily high up in the anchor locker.

3.Another factor is weight. Weight in the bow can be useful on a P boat, depending on how much stern lift you do or don't have at P speeds, so that might steer your chain/rope choice.

4. Another factor is whether you be anchoring overnight vs for lunch/afternoon. CI can be an unforgiving place and there are plenty of harbours/marinas for overnighting. I think I would sleep more soundly with a new 60m length of chain, and even then the anchor itself needs to be good enough (don't believe that garbage when people say the chain holds the boat not the anchor - the anchor obviously holds the boat).

 

[stelican]

w3³

I’ve priced up both options and I’m coming round to that view too. I’d not considered the anchor locker environment.

Thanks to all for their input.

And with a bit more weight in the bow you might need less trim tab!