bedouin
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately that is another of those figures the EVangelists make up.So already at 10%. brilliant !
Less than 3% of cars on the road are purely electric - and even if you include PHEV it isn't much more than 3%.
EV technology for your next boat ???
- Thread starter superheat6k
- Start date
Less than 3% of cars on the road are purely electric - and even if you include PHEV it isn't much more than 3%.
Martxer
Well-Known Member
– JCB's electric mini-digger has a long way to go... | By Interpart | Facebook
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
Yet those godawful self charging hybrids are bloody everywhere. Has nobody spotted that they’re just perpetual motion machines?
We could probably manage an electric drive. Easily driven, light boat almost always propelled by sails, except in marinas. We might do that when our outboard needs replacing, We could probably manage with solar charging. But you motor boat people are going to end up digging deep for fuel. I think now is the time to fill your tank, it’s never going to be any cheaper. Small boats can go electric with hydrofoils, they already have, with all carbon structures and the price tag you expect/fear. But the death of power boating as we know it is some years off yet.
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Yes, but my point was there is loads more power instantaneously in a big DC system that you would need for a battery powered boat.
We have enough problems with a simple house bank of lead acid batteries.
Just imagine that multiplied many times over.
Bouba
Well-Known Member
If battery packs are safe in vehicles that have a very real chance of a collision …then it should be very safe in a well protected engine room
SailingDog
Well-Known Member
How do you imagine that will happen ? Did you not have a problem protecting a small Diesel engine ?
Bouba
Well-Known Member
how do diesel electric submarines work?…battery bank powering electric motors…until it’s necessary to recharge with the diesel engines
RAI
Well-Known Member
More childish perhaps?
I can live with that.
flaming
Well-Known Member
That could happen, but I think the price is unlikely to fall much until we get Fusion power. Synthetic fuel uses a lot of power to create, mostly because the first step is to make hydrogen, and then to combine it with carbon drawn from the atmosphere. I can see a situation where governments decide to subsidise production for key users such as shipping and aviation, but I'm not sure leisure users will be on that list. And indeed, each fuel "type" (Avgas, ship fuel, petrol, diesel) requires separate production runs. So if there isn't a large synthetic fuel demand for diesel, then getting synthetic diesel made in any volume could itself be an issue. So a lot will depend on what happens to trucks etc.
I think perhaps we need to be realistic that the needs of leisure boaters are waaaaaaaay down the list when it comes to structuring the move away from fossil fuels, and the approach that the sector will need to take is to piggy back on the most realistic technology to keep us afloat and adapting our hobby to suit that rather than expecting to remain doing what we do with no major changes.
Tamar
Well-Known Member
There used to be a battery powered pleasure boat on a lake in Cardiff. I googled it and it took 12 passengers, it was in service from 1991until 2013 and was powered by 12 lead acid batteries. It was taken out of service after an inspection by a surveyor.
I don't know how successful it was, but it was in service for a long time. I don't know how long a charge lasted for.
I don't know how successful it was, but it was in service for a long time. I don't know how long a charge lasted for.
DAW
Well-Known Member
My guess is that like most things in the real world, changes will be gradual in nature, occur in response to external pressures, and take place over an extended period of time. I don't believe we will see a revolution in drive systems for boats, or a politically motivated drive to ban the use of large diesel engines, any time soon. But I do believe the transformation is already happening.
In recent times, these forums have been full of comments from people who own fast planing boats with big engines and yet travel everywhere at displacement speeds to "better enjoy the cruising experience" and reduce fuel consumption. If the market moves in the direction of travelling at lower speeds, then more efficient hull designs, smaller more efficient diesel engines, and small-scale diesel-electric hybrids start to make sense and will appear on more new boats. In recent years, we've seen a huge increase in the popularity of sailing catamarans in areas such as the Med, Caribbean and Greek Islands. These boats generally motor (not sail) everywhere at 6-8 knots consuming relatively little fuel in their 60-80hp engines and their manufacturers are early adopters of solar power and diesel-electric hybrid drive systems. Most are exploring (or are already) producing power cat versions of their boats. The increasing use of outboard rather than inboard engines on reasonably large planing boats is another example of the move away from heavy, fuel-hungry motors ... and most of the big outboard manufacturers are working on fully electric versions of their motors.
From a political perspective, I suspect we will eventually see more taxes, higher fuels costs, pay as you go emission zones, and more expensive licensing fees ... all of the measures they are using to discourage vehicle use and reduce pollution from cars ... but I don't see a ban on diesel engines in pleasure boats. UK boaters enjoy a somewhat privileged position with red diesel, no licence fees and very few restrictions on access and anchoring. For those of us in the Med, fuel is subject to VAT at the highest rate, many EU countries already impose significant license fees on boats on their national registers based on size and engine power, and the requirement for cruising permits is increasing. Just as an example, a boat +15m with two 900-1000hp engines registered in France, or owned by someone resident in France, is currently subject to DAFN (annual registration taxes) in the region of EUR 7,500.
In recent times, these forums have been full of comments from people who own fast planing boats with big engines and yet travel everywhere at displacement speeds to "better enjoy the cruising experience" and reduce fuel consumption. If the market moves in the direction of travelling at lower speeds, then more efficient hull designs, smaller more efficient diesel engines, and small-scale diesel-electric hybrids start to make sense and will appear on more new boats. In recent years, we've seen a huge increase in the popularity of sailing catamarans in areas such as the Med, Caribbean and Greek Islands. These boats generally motor (not sail) everywhere at 6-8 knots consuming relatively little fuel in their 60-80hp engines and their manufacturers are early adopters of solar power and diesel-electric hybrid drive systems. Most are exploring (or are already) producing power cat versions of their boats. The increasing use of outboard rather than inboard engines on reasonably large planing boats is another example of the move away from heavy, fuel-hungry motors ... and most of the big outboard manufacturers are working on fully electric versions of their motors.
From a political perspective, I suspect we will eventually see more taxes, higher fuels costs, pay as you go emission zones, and more expensive licensing fees ... all of the measures they are using to discourage vehicle use and reduce pollution from cars ... but I don't see a ban on diesel engines in pleasure boats. UK boaters enjoy a somewhat privileged position with red diesel, no licence fees and very few restrictions on access and anchoring. For those of us in the Med, fuel is subject to VAT at the highest rate, many EU countries already impose significant license fees on boats on their national registers based on size and engine power, and the requirement for cruising permits is increasing. Just as an example, a boat +15m with two 900-1000hp engines registered in France, or owned by someone resident in France, is currently subject to DAFN (annual registration taxes) in the region of EUR 7,500.
roa312
Well-Known Member
I agree that we've already seen part of this change (or "evo/re-volution") take place - for instance in the form of much more frequent use of outdrives and IPS (which granted does come with other advantages over shaft drives). I've been looking into the old Princess v48/v50 and I'm surprised about the difference in engine sizes fitted when compared to newer models. Especially when considering that the newer models are significantly larger. See comparison tables below.
My own anecdotal experience from last summer is that people were suddenly a lot more willing to live with displacements speeds after the fuel price here in Denmark pretty much doubled. We had diesel prices at about 2.6 EUR/l for a short while there.
| Princess v48, production start 2004 | 12.3 tonnes | 2x VP D9 (575 hp) |
| Princess v48, production start 2013 | 14.3 tonnes | 2x VP IPS 600 (435 hp) |
| Princess v50, production start 1997 | 12.5 tonnes | 2x VP D12 (715 hp) |
| Princess v50, production start 2017 | 15.9 tonnes | 2x VP IPS 650 (480 hp) |
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Momac
Well-Known Member
What do people think about having several hundred litres of diesel of petrol in a tank on their boat?
We are talking serious chemical energy.
westernman
Well-Known Member
Or having a boat made from inflamable oil products such as polyester etc?
Elessar
Well-Known Member
“Safe” is subjective.
Risk = likelihood x severity
They are impossible to extinguish so I would not have one on a boat because whilst liklihood is low severity is v high.
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
There are many, many boats with lithium batteries of various sizes on board. How risky is that, in your view? Domestic batteries are becoming widespread, then there’s electric outboards, tools and for us raggies, electric winch handles, we have one of those. We’ll probably go LiFePO4 for our next house battery, we only have a small outboard to start, and the weight saving is a big benefit on a multi.
SC35
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be too worried about my future EVBoat having a battery fire or barbecuing myself with 800v.
But this is only because I am already used to the dangers posed by an engine room with rotating belts, lead-acid batteries giving off a bit of hydrogen, 240v systems, and the ever-present possibility of a turbo failure or high pressure fuel failure resulting in an engine bay fire.
For me, both would be an acceptable level of risk, it's just that the risks come from differing vectors.
My guess would be that EVBoat would have a lower incidence of fires.
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Bouba
Well-Known Member
How many plastic boats stop burning before they sink?
SC35
Well-Known Member
I’ve seen very few serious ICE boat fires that didn’t result in sinking. Small fires that can be put out quickly have more chance.
bedouin
Well-Known Member
My tank holds about 8 gallons and gets filled only a couple of times a season - and I can cross the channel on less than 1L of diesel
I think a "diesel electric" installation would work very well - I only need 5 to 10 minutes power in and out of the berth and starting / warming up the diesel for that is very inefficient.