etiquette when you find someone else on your mooring

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

But that is not true and is a huge risk from my direct experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hard cases always did make bad law.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi downthecreek!

I don't think the generalisation you made in your previous post helps much (or was accurate) either!

I don't actually disagree with your sentiments in the main, but wanted to point out that there are other sides to the argument, and in my case this could have resulted in the loss of, or very serious damage to my boat.

I suppose there will always be some selfish, ignorant and ungracious people on the water but I don't feel I should have to tolerate them, or allow them to use my mooring. Others are welcome! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]

Custom and practice may be different on the East Coast, but that is the way it works on the West coast of Scotland, so if any of you are up here please do NOT assume that you are welcome to pick up any private mooring you come across.

[/ QUOTE ]

We have a sailor in Port Dinorwic who spends every summer cruising Scottish West coast waters. I asked him this very question last year and he told me that it was usual for people to pick up unoccupied moorings, and as long as he was prepared to leave with a few minutes notice, had never come across the attitude you describe.

Luckily, my cruising ground of North Wales is very welcoming, and during last years' forum meet most of us spent the weekend on unoccupied moorings.

I am sure if you were to bring your boat down to N Wales you would find you are welcome to use unoccupied moorings.

What happened to Scottish hospitality?
 
[ QUOTE ]


We have a sailor in Port Dinorwic who spends every summer cruising Scottish West coast waters. I asked him this very question last year and he told me that it was usual for people to pick up unoccupied moorings, and as long as he was prepared to leave with a few minutes notice, had never come across the attitude you describe.


[/ QUOTE ]

My experience on the Scottish west coast has been the same as that described by your friend, on the few occasions that I have picked up a mooring. I have yet to enjoy the lovely west coast of Wales, but its good to know the sailors there take a relaxed attitude as well.
 
[ QUOTE ]


I suppose there will always be some selfish, ignorant and ungracious people on the water but I don't feel I should have to tolerate them, or allow them to use my mooring. Others are welcome! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi to you too.

I think this is the point exactly. Unless you are going to forbid all use of your mooring (hard to enforce, of course) then you have to take the rough with the smooth. Sadly, you had a very bad experience, but I think that is pretty uncommon. I've certainly not had any such problems in 25 years of owning my current mooring.

Another common theme on these boards is that of "efin safety gorn mad!". Well, what is that except excessive restriction based on excessive fear of possible consequences? We lose so much by basing our general rules on specific events that may be very undesirable but which, in most cases are unlikely to recur.

Does every tenth boat damage my mooring? Every hundredth? One a month? One a year? One in 10 years? One in 25 years? These are all different issues demanding different treatment. That is what is meant by hard cases making bad law.
 
I agree - having spent 3 months there last summer I didn't encounter this attitude - though I suppose the difference on W coast of Scotland is that in most places there is still plenty of space to anchor (which we did mostly) and on the few occasions we didn't it was normally on the invite of someone to use their mooring - but with less crowding there is much better chance of actually finding out who a mooring belongs to.

Again down here in W Wales I think its generally accepted that people can use others moorings providing they are ready to move and use them sensibly wrt suitability / weather conditions. I'm certainly more than happy for people to use mine - and it doesn't take a genius to look at the boats around and see that a 30 odd foot yacht is likely to occupy it.

It seems the majority of people who object do so on the basis of:

a) Possible inconvenience - which is minimal so long as boat is not left unoccupied and / or you leave a phone number for visitor to check with.
b) Careless or inappropriate use - again can be minimised by marking a maximum size or leaving a phone number. And i suspect those that drive over your strops without telling you are just as likely to do it just passing a mooring!

I agree if I come back in the middle of the night and some one is on it its a minor inconvenience - but no more - I'm off to paint my mobile number on this w/e which should pretty much remove this scenario.

Also isn't it better to encourage use of a vacant mooring rather than ploughing up more sea bed?

Lastly - it would actually give me a good feeling to know someone was using my mooring if I was away overnight - I certainly wouldn't be seething about it !
 
[ QUOTE ]

Also isn't it better to encourage use of a vacant mooring rather than ploughing up more sea bed?

[/ QUOTE ] I've heard it is good for seahorses and eelgrass. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Don't think too many seahorses would survive in the Menai Strait, unless they can swim at 8 knots.
 
[ QUOTE ]
My experience on the Scottish west coast has been the same as that described by your friend, on the few occasions that I have picked up a mooring. I have yet to enjoy the lovely west coast of Wales, but its good to know the sailors there take a relaxed attitude as well.

[/ QUOTE ] Yup. My mooring on the Menai Strait seems to have become a favorite stopping-off point for boats waiting for the slack in the Swellies. Some people ask if they can use it, but those that know me generally pay me the compliment of assuming I wouldn't mind.

It's all my gear, professionally laid in 9m and, with the County Council charge, has cost me about 4K over the last four years. Because I'm away so much of the season, the cost per night works out only just cheaper than a marina berth might be, assuming there was one available. So do I lie awake at night eating my heart out because somebody might be on my mooring for free? Hell no. If anything, what bothers me is that it is so underused.

When away, I avoid using private moorings unless they're obviously at least as substantial as my own. But then I do most of my sailing in Scottish waters and spend more of my time at anchor than on moorings.

People in Scottish waters seem to me no less thoughtful and generous than those in English or Welsh waters. I have come across the odd dog-in-a-manger (the sort that might be found hogging an anchorage that could without too much of a pinch accommodate 3 or 4 boats - "I've laid out 50m of chain in 7m depth, so I'm going to shout like hell if you come within 120m of me"), but for every one of those there are a dozen others who enjoy being good neighbours.

Last week I dropped the hook in Loch na Droma Buidhe quite close to a nice Sparkman & Stevens yacht (circa 1980, see below). We had barely put the kettle on before her owner came across in his dinghy. I must have looked worried, because he began by reassuring me that he hadn't come to tell me to move. He then heaved a sack of scallops into the cockpit and said welcome to Scotland. When we returned the call with a third of a bottle of Bowmore (it was all we had left) he wouldn't let us go until we had made a sizeable dent in a fresh bottle of his Bunnahabhain. Lesson of the day, as demonstrated by our most generous host: when you pull the cork on a bottle of malt, chuck it overboard.


DSC_0646.jpg



Thanks also to Will, harbourmaster at Port Patrick. Seeing me standing outside the locked harbourmaster's office, he asked me what my business was. I said I was looking for someone to whom I might pay my berthing fee. He said, you're in luck, I've just chucked it in, and there's no-one else. Discovering that I was also looking for someone to do some welding on a leaking stainless muffler, he said cancel the taxi, I'll pick you up at 8 tomorrow morning. The job was done in time to catch the last of the North-going tide for our sail to Troon.

Hospitality to match that of the East Coast, I'd say!
 
[ QUOTE ]

Hospitality to match that of the East Coast, I'd say!

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif And not unusual in my experience. Why is it that people tend to characterise bad experiences (such as that with the mean spirited mooring owner at Ramsholt mentioned early in this thread) as "typical" rather than the good ones that are, I find, much more usual? Life is, to a very great extent, as good or as bad as we make it.

Although I do rather like Hollowshore, where you can lie alongside a fine smack (the Alberta) and where, if you proffer money you are asked "are you going to the pub?" If the answer is yes, you are invited (if you wish) to "put something behind the bar for the lads". /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
A final thought?

I have mostly sailed areas of big tides & shifting sand and mud. In these areas, leaving a mooring unused for any length of time is the kiss of death. The ground chain will sink deep in the mud often taking the riser & swivels with it. All that investment sinking permanently & uselessly out of sight.

An occasional freeloader can keep the riser & swivels free of the mud & maintain the mooring in good condition. I often use "free" moorings for lunch stops or overnighters and have only been disturbed by the rightful owner once. In apologised & started getting ready to leave & he said "Don't bother, I will tie alongside with your warps & fenders, we can swop the strops from your boat to mine & then you may leave as you intended"

It is a simple & easy solution that allows both owner & borrower to continue their plans without any inconvenience to the other. I left a bottle of wine in his cockpit when we left as he had gone ashore, I hope it was to his taste!
 
Re: A final thought?

It does seem to depend on local practice, there are places where vacant mooring are the best option and it is expected, Keyhaven and the Yealm are primes examples of this. In Newtown IOW where there are numerous visitors buoys many of the residents buoys are clearly marked no mooring, Fine it is clear.

The situation becomes an issue for me when you go off the beaten track, clearly some will resent you using their mooring but this can often be the best option, and I must say I really don't see the problem as long as you are ready to move if the owner returns.

At my home port Christchurch our sailing club has just taken over ownership of the mooring and as abolished the visitors buoys, Yachts can still tie up at the club, but the intention is to allocated moorings whose owners are away when the alongside mooring are full, to me this is getting full use of available moorings. I tend not to have yachts on my mooring it being up river, but am used to dinghies and small MBs hanging on fishing, I hope I am courteous in asking them to give me space to tie up.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ My mooring on the Menai Strait seems to have become a favorite stopping-off point for boats waiting for the slack in the Swellies. Some people ask if they can use it, but those that know me generally pay me the compliment of assuming I wouldn't mind.



[/ QUOTE ]

Freestyle, which is Your mooring in Menai?
If , as You say, You vacate it often.
I could make a few drinking coupons renting it out /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Interesting point about the cost vis a vee a Marina berth.
In 89 Jonathan Evans laid a substancial mooring for my ex lifeboat off the 'university island', back then the figures you mention where pro rata as it were.

Peeps used to borrow it.
Always found no probs when I returned.
Cept once.
Dirty big mobo was sat on it.
Usual calls to the Livvy arms , Victoria hotel etc but no contact or show with the Squatters.

Went alongside and boarded.
'Patio door' was shut, rattled and banged but no response.
So 'nicked ' a mooring nearby.
Knew the Yachtsman was away for a few days.

Next morning, well nearly Lunchtime.
Stirrings on the Mobo.

They were on board all the time!!!

Obviously had a party and were under the aflluence of inchahol when I tried to arouse them.
'Them' Jammy Git His Wife/ Partner was stunning!!!



/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

No wonder the Skipper didn't answer My knockings.
He probably had knockings of His own to enjoy, twat /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

A bottle of decent grog was offered and accepted.
So all in all everything was fine and dandy.

Thing is, if One bums a mooring, One has to realise that a shift in the evening may be needed.

I'd have removed Her shift any evening!

Sorry!
I,ll shove off to the Lounge



/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
What happened to Scottish hospitality?

[/ QUOTE ] Oh, sorry. Would you like to sleep with my wife as well?

As I havealready said, we are delighted to have other folk using our mooring while we are away - but I prefer to know about it. There are usually plenty of boatyard moorings free in the bay , so ther is no excuse for picking up a private mooring other than an unwillingness to spend money.

We once turned up in Tayvallich in a howling North-Easterly, which is the only direction there is not perfect shelter. We went ashore and enquired at the shop if there was anyone who would not mind us using their mooring and were directed to the bloke who runs the moorings association who pointed out a mooring that we could use.

It wasn't too much trouble . . .

- W
 
I would be absolutely mortified to find that I had upset someone by using their mooring against their wishes. I think I have only once picked up a private mooring buoy uninvited and that was to wait for a couple of hours for the tide to fill. I spent the entire time on deck at action stations ready to go and hoping that any boats I saw wouldn't be the rightful owner.
 
I have just been watching the news and and they interviewed a doctor, one of several people who have recently donated one of their kidneys to people they don't even know.

Forgive me saying this but it makes your attitude look a bit churlish and unmanly. Surely you can't really be such an unpleasant person? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Freestyle, which is Your mooring in Menai?


[/ QUOTE ] It is closer to each of two representatives of the Admiralty than it is to a big bronze eagle, but not by much. [ QUOTE ]
I could make a few drinking coupons renting it out

[/ QUOTE ] Donations in kind may be left in the cockpit when I return. Cash donations are taken care of by the RNLI. [ QUOTE ]
. . . when I tried to arouse them

[/ QUOTE ] The mind boggles.
 
Nail on the head, my wife uses that word, its perfect to describe the feeling of embarassment when caught out doing something that goes against all civilised behaviour!
Stu
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have just been watching the news and and they interviewed a doctor, one of several people who have recently donated one of their kidneys to people they don't even know.

Forgive me saying this but it makes your attitude look a bit churlish and unmanly. Surely you can't really be such an unpleasant person?

[/ QUOTE ] I don't know you and you have no right to my mooring or any of my organs. Are you a follower of Chairman Mao? I thought it was me who was the socialist bogey man around here.

I think giving a kidney to a stranger is moronic. You only have two - what if the other one goes wrong or a relative or loved one needs it? I am not churlish, but neither am I stupid.

Unmanly? Are you some kind of Victorian throwback? Why you should find it necessary to insult me because I don't want strangers on my mooring uninvited is a mystery, but it leads me to suspect that you may be a bounder and a cad sir.

- W
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have just been watching the news and and they interviewed a doctor, one of several people who have recently donated one of their kidneys to people they don't even know.

Forgive me saying this but it makes your attitude look a bit churlish and unmanly. Surely you can't really be such an unpleasant person?

[/ QUOTE ] I don't know you and you have no right to my mooring or any of my organs. Are you a follower of Chairman Mao? I thought it was me who was the socialist bogey man around here.

I think giving a kidney to a stranger is moronic. You only have two - what if the other one goes wrong or a relative or loved one needs it? I am not churlish, but neither am I stupid.

Unmanly? Are you some kind of Victorian throwback? Why you should find it necessary to insult me because I don't want strangers on my mooring uninvited is a mystery, but it leads me to suspect that you may be a bounder and a cad sir.

- W

[/ QUOTE ]


A bounder AND a cad.....Strewth, that's a bit strong innit!? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

No you aint the socialist bogey man around here, I am, so bog off and stop trying to nick my thunder, you champagne pinko! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Almost beside the point now that proceedings have reached high farce but I'd just like to say that the incredibly generous and warm-hearted Webthang allowed me to use his mooring for almost two seasons for the cost of a single inspection - oh, and the bank charges after I bounced a cheque on him. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
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