Estimated position

Slow_boat

Slow_boat

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 Sep 2005
Messages
15,101
Location
My own cosy little world where nice things happen
Visit site
I don't want to sound sanctimonious but I get the feeling from reading the yachting press and these forums that I must be the only person in the world that regularly plot postions on the paper chart and checks gps position against estimated position, echo sounder, compass fixes etc. when out of pilotage.

Please tell me I'm wrong.
 
You are not alone I too prefer to plot on paper. I doubt that I will ever bother to fit any kind of plotter or laptop ie electronic charting, 1. its too bloody expensive 2. add water and its going to complain (ok some say they are waterproof but we all know that saltwater and eletric are a poor combo)
3. I don't want my chart table to resemble the bridge of the starship enterprise with everything beeping and flashing.

KISS principle every time.
 
Got a mobo with basic gps-- radar. Bought a mono small plotter of of a fellow Forumite, not used it yet ,looks good though!
Use the paper way all the time, just think it,s safer + it,s good fun+ I,m a tosser when it comes to Gizmos! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Spanners and Lump hammers ,now your talking!
 
We do note GPS position each hour when underway and if the electrics of the main system, plus the batteries in the first back-up handheld, plus the batteries in the other grab bag handheld all went out at the same time - or indeed if the Americans switched it off ever again - then we too would easily revert to paper charts.

But lets also be realistic guys, I've only ever seen it not working on one night for around 6 hours in a period of 20 years.

The rest of the time - wet or not, like it or not - modern GPS kit appears to work fine.

I'll now duck before I get hit with a rolled up chart.

Cheers
JOHN
 
You said it in the first line;

[ QUOTE ]
We do note GPS position each hour when underway

[/ QUOTE ]

So if it all went horribly wrong you could go to EP at least.

I just consider it basic seamanship to keep a record of position that doesn't rely on batteries or complicated gizmos.

I also don't like to rely anything on a boat that I can't fix, replace or do without, at sea.
 
I have:

1) a plotter at the wheel, internal aerial, powered from the boat board.... but I can also power it directly from the batteries, or from a 20Ah Halfords Booster pack.

2) Laptop PC with independent GPS aerial. laptop powered from invertor system with 200Ah battery, or from invertor on halfords booster pack. I'll probably get a 12v supply lead for this.

3) GPS position on raymarine ST60 instruments/Autohelm 300 course computer, powered from boat board, own aerial.

4) Philips navigator Mk8 GPS powered from boat board, own aerial

5) Suunto M9 GPS watch, charged from invertor system.

6) paper charts.


I dont tend to plot a position as, the chances of all of the above failing simultaneously are probably like winning the lottery and, if the GPS system fails, or is turned off, most of the above provide a log of positions, so moving to DR etc. would not be difficult.

If you have a motor boat in a tideway and the engine fails, I am guessing you are knackered, but I dont think they carry oars and/or sails?
 
I still have my trusty garmin handheld and have recently acquired a Lowrance 3500C (at US not UK prices) which I'm very happy with.

However, as a minimum, I keep an hourly plot on paperchart and in log, plus any passing of navigational features of fixed position, and have all the necessary tools to go into 'steam powered navigation'.

I know only too well from practical experience, how easy it is to lose all the electronics when sailing for prolonged periods of time in severe weather (when you need them most, of course)!

Then the hand held (GPS and VHF) and a large box of AA batteries (I buy one at the start of every cruise) can be a life saver. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
One engine (which I fuss over continously ).
Spanners etc that fit everything.
Filters/pumps/pipes/tapes/ties/clips/coils of wire/more filters/bowls.buckets/bailers/bilge pumpsx4/2vhf/2outboards/more filters/impellers/inline pumps/bungy cords/belt and braces/propellors/pullers/sharp knife on stick/wetsuit/facemask/snorkel/manuals/cable ties/fog horn/loud hailer/megaphone/several anchors/lots of string/more filters.
No oars/or sails.

Mind you I think I might get some oars.
Sails ,probabley get in the way.
Mind you they could come in handy to cut up and wrap round a leaky bit if ,any of My short list of "handy bits to have"failed Me.

The list above is only used up to 2 miles Offshore.

The complete inventory needed on a single engined mobo when venturing "Deap Sea" (Ie 2-5 miles out!) is tremendous listing everything on here would grind the Forum to a halt.
You see you Raggies don,t know how lucky you are, wind and an engine must be dead easy.
Think how nervous I feel when venturing "Deap Sea" with just 1 propellor.
Thats,s why I prefer Paper Charts, you just don,t know when the leccy bits will let you down,Crikey I could be 2-5 miles out, No paper Chart where would I be?
 
I don't tend to keep an ep going all the time, but I do note our position on the chart and check that it 'makes sense' from what I see on deck and from the other instruments. ie Does the depth look 'right for where the GPS claims we are compared to what is shown on the chart.

We don't have a plotter and I like to see the chart in the flesh. Old habits die hard.
 
Depends on the trip, but anything of any significance involves regular marks on the chart, derived from GPS, but often checked with other information.

No you are not alone.
 
Clearly a lot of skippers carry and use paper charts, if only to see what the GPS positions look like. When cruising just for relaxation or the pleasure of revisiting old haunts in good weather, that's me too.
In bad conditions, the old disciplines of plotting Course-to-steer for target landfalls and noting contingency harbours of refuge are resurrected. However, in recent years two things have become clear:
First, if we do not exercise these skills often enough we lose fluency and confidence in them (ratcheting up the anxiety levels of all on board!)
Second, we miss the pleasure and satisfaction to be gained from exercising a hard-earned skill. Most of us enjoy applying our skills to reach a successful conclusion, and traditional navigation is one of them.
In PIOTA, we often choose to make a 'Trad-Nav' passage using only compass, log, depth and charts; no pressing buttons for engine or GPS! Weighing anchor, setting sail, making the expected landfall in Harris, Orkney or Shetland, finding the planned anchorage, and setting the hook under sail still gives quite a buzz!
 
I have just started sailing again after long ten plus years break and way back then GPS was not really around.

I don't want to buy one or learn how to use it - do you think thats irresponsible. Miy ambitions are very limited at the moment but am surprised at the amount of e-kit people like.

My idea of a nightmare would be to have any sort of dependence on anything I can't fix and would hate to have a laptop on board. I don't really trust erngines let alone
computers and am now under pressure to get a VHF.

I can't imagine going out without keeping up some sort of
dead reckoning and wouldn't like to on board a vessel
where the skipper was getting his position from a read out.

As I said I don't want to go far but I would like to think I can get about without all this stuff.
 
I have yet to meet a long distance sailor who does not use paper charts.
I suppose now someone will try to circumnavigate without them for a sponsor
 
OK, I will own up. Just back from a three week cruise to northern French coast, Belgium etc. Not one fix on the paper chart throughout ...

BUT, before everyone shouts at once, I kept a paper chart open and cross-checked it visually with the NAVMAN plotter, making a note of times we passed particular waypoints or key navigational features.

At least that way, if the NAVMAN plotter went up the shute and the Garmin handheld through a wobbly, or the GPS system itself crashed, I could have reconstructed a manual plot and avoided being any more lost than usual.

Can't say it is exactly what the instructor recommends or the examiner expects, but it has the advantage of being practical and not unduly fussy.
 
wrong - GPS position and distance run noted every hour. Passage plan on the papercharts as well as on the plotter (waterproof) also on the back-up laptop.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top