Estimated position

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'its the only way we can be sure of our position'

[/ QUOTE ] so what was he actually plotting then? How could he miraculously come up with a position to plot with the accuracy of GPS? If he was concerned with the uptodate nature of the charting I could understand it a little but live charting updates for most commercially used electronic ones are available so that doesn't work either.

Don't understand what this has got to do with seamanship either - I could suggest that it's not good seamanship to go afloat without a GPS chartplotter - but I wouldn't
 
Each on to their own. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

What works for you is best! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Again as I've said before, I find it strange in this day and age that ships and boats crawling around at lowly speeds carry and use paper charts, when Jet Airliners travelling at over 450kt relay soley on electronics and radar, and have done so sucessfully for the past 30 years. When have you last heard a 'speedbird' call heathrow approach and ask for a radar fix? Never!
 
Have chartplotter with 2 switchable sources of GPS. Handheld GPS as backup. Only when out of sight of land do I plot position every hour.

I have a sextant and did oceanmaster but must confess that there is so many other things to do in life I don't ever bother taking sextant on board nor practice extensive EP calculation.

Technology is there to make life easy but if you need to prove you can do everything the old fashioned way see a Psychiatrist!!
 
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Technology is there to make life easy but if you need to prove you can do everything the old fashioned way see a Psychiatrist!!


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I think you need might need help one day if you do not know how to do it the old fashioned way. I sailed out of Ijmuiden one day heading for near Harwich - got 20 miles offshore and all - yes all the electronics failed - Whatever I did I could not make the main breaker stay in - fuses popped left and right. That was a few years ago before GPS but last year coming up Biscay my GPS died - dead as a dodo. No problem had a hand held back up.... except only one set of batteries and now way of powering it once they died.

Whilst neither of the above may ever happen again I do think it is worth while to be able to navigate by DR -- I have put the sextant away and do not carry the tables anymore.

Michael
 
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Imagine how far you'd travel in a jet while you work out your star sight!

[/ QUOTE ]Yea but they only wanted to be within 100 miles of a VOR after crossing the pond
 
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when you're 'pootling around the Solent' you know where you are as you're on pilotage and using local knowledge and mark one eyeball rather than navigating.

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Exactly. Navigation is the art of knowing where you are and how to get where you are going. Being able to quote your Lat and Long to three decimal places, without knowing where you are in relation to the nearest hazard or where the tide is taking you is not usually all that useful. I like to use the minimum of instrumentation to navigate, although I can understand and sympathise with people wanting to play with space age toys to the same end. The ones I totally disagree with are those who claim it is "unsafe" to put to sea without one electronic nav. aid or another, whether it is gps, vhf or radar. The only really essential piece of kit is between the skipper's ears! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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Technology is there to make life easy but if you need to prove you can do everything the old fashioned way see a Psychiatrist!!

[/ QUOTE ]Brilliant Roger /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I'm on the floor laughing! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif You hit the nail on the head
 
What prompted the thread was that I am genuinly surprised that the chap on 'Pastime' didn't have a clue where he was. Even a DR is better than nothing but if he didn't note the last fix then a DR would be impossible.

Apart from which, I don't trust all these gizmos to keep working or the yanks not to switch off!
 
I think I made the point - When out of sight of land I plot position every 1hr.

Within sight of land and with a chartplotter I expect to be (as another has said) to know where i am and nearest hazards, more importantly to know what the tides and weather are doing.

So yes I can do DR but would not claim to be capable with a sextant but if I planned an ocean crossing I would ensure that I became profficient before setting off.

The point I wanted to make is I prefer to enjoy my sailing rather than spent more time than is sensible navigating.

I bet some would take pride in boasting if they could still plough a field with a horse and plough and alway do just in case the tractor breaks down!!
 
Ok you traditional purists. Dig a hole in yer back gardens and us it as yer outside privvy from now on in case the chain or handle breaks on the indoor convienience /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Bach has been out of the top 10 for centuries
 
I guess like most things, the sensible route is a compromise. Unless it is what you enjoy, no need to use a leadline and sextant when pootling around your back yard, but also perhaps not the most sensible option to only know how to operate your all singing and dancing Chartplotter, even if 999 times out of a 1000 (or more) it is ok to do so.

Looking out the window helps a lot, and perhaps getting comfortable with not feeling like you have to know where you are to the nearest 10cm's..........24/7.

Writing stuff down is IMO good practice when going on a trip away from home, especially start time from a known point. If you ain't got a Chartplotter then IMO writing on a chart (whether from a GPS or by DR) is the IMO the only real way to "see" your course over ground, especially when tired. and if you do have one then just writing down anywhere the lat and long and a time regularly will suffice as a back up without the bother of marking up a chart. I find in most things that it is the unexpected that causes problems, the more you can plan for, the less likley they are to happen /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I wouldn't go anywhere without a paper chart though, even if just in case. and would very very much prefer not to be without a GPS! (or 2!)

ALL IMO etc etc
 
Statistically, this forum does not represent the boating "world" properly, I'm afraid.
I'd rather answer your generic question "I must be the only person in the world..." with an even more generic, but statistically meaningful: "Almost".
 
gets my vote too - I have done a number of channel crossings (before) without any vav aids beyond compass, sounder and charts (well tidal atlas and tables of course) but now have 3 plotters at the helm and would have to hunt around for any scraps of the paper stuff (but the almanac has nice chartlets and summary pages!
 
Why carry several GPS s and plotters as back up when a single paper chart is all you need ?? I'll tell up why --- because "proper" navigation is beyond half the boaters these days . Nuffin wrong with that but dont try to cover up your lack of knowledge and ability by indicating that paper chart users are too thick to move with the times .
I use paper charts (althoughI do have a small handheld GPS ) . Its a skill I have and proud of it !
 
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And of course paper charts are a fraction of the cost of a chart plotter let alone three!!!! (especially if you want one with a screen big enough to show the 'larger picture' in any sort of detail)


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I beg to differ, for example on a trip to Norway the paper charts to give me the full coverage that the plotter and a couple of chips gave were over £1000, cost of plotter and chips £800.

FWIW, now I buy large scale charts and use those for planning and the chartplotter for the close range stuff.
 
I agree absolutley Nuffin! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I have always loved the art of Navigation, but in the end it's only a way of getting somewhere else. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif (ex Air Navigator) /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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Why carry several GPS s and plotters as back up when a single paper chart is all you need ?? I'll tell up why --- because "proper" navigation is beyond half the boaters these days . Nuffin wrong with that but dont try to cover up your lack of knowledge and ability by indicating that paper chart users are too thick to move with the times .
I use paper charts (althoughI do have a small handheld GPS ) . Its a skill I have and proud of it !

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OK so maybe if I explain you might be more understanding and less insulting?

When we bought our current boat 5 years ago it came with an ancient Shipmate GPS that was the most user unfriendly thing I've ever used. We did however transfer our B&W Plotter from the old boat (bought half price when it was withdrawn from the range) and the GPS aerial that ran it. We added a Yeoman to plot on PAPER and used the Shipmate just to do that. Later the Shipmate became intermittently faulty, just before our main cruise so I looked quickly for a replacement and realised that a small plotter was only a few quid more than a fixed GPS set, so we bought the Navman 5500i and put it in the cockpit as it is fully waterproof, we already had chart cartridges for it. Later we dismantled the Shipmate and fitted a new internal memory battery which resurected it for another year, then it went completely tits up. We were about to visit family in the USA and saw a bargain ($700) Navman 5600 which became a 60th birthday present for me and now resides at the chart table, replacing our 8 year old B&W one which I simply kept just in case. So that is how we finished with 3 plotters, not from any fear of failure but a natural progression and we use just 2 of them, one chart table and one cockpit mounted.

As far as 'proper' navigation is concerned I don't have a lack of knowledge as you rudely suggest. I was navigating long before modern instruments existed for yotties, even Decca systems and am very capable thank you of planning and navigating 'properly' as you put it, I even have a sextant and whilst I joke about having 2 computer programs to work up the sights I can also do it manually, do have the tables needed and even have my own sight reduction forms pre-printed.

BTW my lovely SWMBO also can navigate 'proper' and passed her Yachtmaster Shorebased top of the class 15 years ago. I did mine well over 20 years back too but had been navigating my own boats for probably 18 years before that so had a little background knowledge to start with.

As for paper charts, we carry the full set from Dover to Spain via Ireland. We carry electronic chart cartridges covering from Holland to Gibralter and these are much more detailed with larger scale harbour charts etc than the paper charts, right down to showing berth numbers in marinas.

We, that is just SWMBO and I, sail anywhere up to 2,000mls each year. We mostly use the electronic plotters for the simple reason it allows us to enjoy the sailing and gives us a constant picture of where we are and our track over the ground so that we can see quickly and clearly if this is taking us too close to any danger, without spending hours at the chart table.

If you chose to use just paper charts that is fine by me, I can do it either way, that should be fine by you.
 
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