Epoxy, then varnish...

wazza

wazza

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I saw this on YouTube ... this guy painted epoxy on a nicely rubbed down piece of teak, then 2 coats of varnish & it looked incredible.

If anyone has done this, what are the advantages & disadvantages of it opposed to a Polyurethane varnish (coelan)?
 
wazza said:
I saw this on YouTube ... this guy painted epoxy on a nicely rubbed down piece of teak, then 2 coats of varnish & it looked incredible.

If anyone has done this, what are the advantages & disadvantages of it opposed to a Polyurethane varnish (coelan)?
Click to expand...

Perhaps with a dose of ignorance, I did exactly that to my tiller.
It was flaking extensively- water marks etc etc -threatening to split along the main longitudinal joint, so I removed it home, dismantled it competely. Rubbed back to clean bare wood. Dowelled and epoxy glued the two halved back together. Rubbed down a little more.
Then 2 coats of West Epoxy, flatting down with fine wet/dry after each coat. Then 2 (or was it 3?) coats of exterior UV resistant varnish, allowing appropriate drying time. It looks very good and I think the hard surface of the epoxy protects the wood better than varnish alone? I've heard of other people doing this for other wood out of doors , but it would be really challenging on any large flat surface....:-)

Graeme
 
pagoda said:
Perhaps with a dose of ignorance, I did exactly that to my tiller.
It was flaking extensively- water marks etc etc -threatening to split along the main longitudinal joint, so I removed it home, dismantled it competely. Rubbed back to clean bare wood. Dowelled and epoxy glued the two halved back together. Rubbed down a little more.
Then 2 coats of West Epoxy, flatting down with fine wet/dry after each coat. Then 2 (or was it 3?) coats of exterior UV resistant varnish, allowing appropriate drying time. It looks very good and I think the hard surface of the epoxy protects the wood better than varnish alone? I've heard of other people doing this for other wood out of doors , but it would be really challenging on any large flat surface....:-)

Graeme
Click to expand...
On a large area, you warm the epoxy and spread/scrape it with a spatula.. it only needs to be very thin, though you can wash,sand and repeat as you like. Then follow up with varnish. This is a pretty common method on small boat self builds.
 
Much better protection for the timber if the varnish gets damaged. But you do need a high UV protection varnish as epoxy will degrade if exposed o too much UV. Even with highly rated UV varnish I apply 3 coats.

Also used on the drinks table in th salon and cockpit.

Good luck and fair winds. :)
 
gjgm said:
On a large area, you warm the epoxy and spread/scrape it with a spatula.. it only needs to be very thin, though you can wash,sand and repeat as you like. Then follow up with varnish. This is a pretty common method on small boat self builds.
Click to expand...

The guy on youtube used a brush to apply... looked very easy.. my saloon table needs tarting up so maybe that's the way to go instead of the Polyurethane..
 
Did my washboard like this and have stood up far better than just varnish. Washboards have the advantage of being able to coat all sides which seems to keep it more stable. If you can't get to all of it I would be more cautious.
 
wazza said:
The guy on youtube used a brush to apply... looked very easy.. my saloon table needs tarting up so maybe that's the way to go instead of the Polyurethane..
Click to expand...

Waste of time internally. Conventional varnish is suitable for protection of the wood and provide a decorative finish. You can choose high gloss or a "rubbed" finish. I have always used Ronseal satin polyurethane internally. Easier to apply than yacht varnish and just as durable - and easy to touch up if it gets dinged.
 
As has been said, it protects the wood far better. Thin epoxy soaks into the wood. Get a slow epoxy for boat kit building. The epoxy definitely needs varnish to provide UV protection.

My Heron done in just this way. http://www.lakelandimages.co.uk/HeronVarnishWeb/index.htm

HeronVarnish01.jpg



This rudder blade (on the right) was epoxied, but not varnished and this amount of degradation occurred in about 2 months in Lake District weather.
The light patch is the bit that was covered by a different head before I used it in this application. The darkening is the effect of the sunlight on epoxy.


newrudderblade.jpg


​
 
Pye_End said:
Did my washboard like this and have stood up far better than just varnish. Washboards have the advantage of being able to coat all sides which seems to keep it more stable. If you can't get to all of it I would be more cautious.
Click to expand...

Now that's got me thinking :)

We've 2 washboards, one is the "nobody on board" 2 piece polycarbonate/ lockable version. The other is a simple ply board, which could do with some attention, since it gets a fair bit of use - and weather. Or ..I have some new WBP ply which I might even cut a new one from, but epoxy / varnish first...

Another job ...:D


I also re-furbished a 420 rudder, which was rather scabby, using west epoxy with appropriate white pigment - rather than paint. Much harder wearing surface!!
 
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Epoxy and varnish on everything in sight after the restoration of Amulet. Awful. Too much work to keep it UV protected - even in the UK. I'd never again use epoxy as a coating except on something that was going to spend most of its time out of sunlight. If you must have a labour saving two part polymer, try two part polyurethane, e.g, Skippers six coats a day system. Works quite well, and professional boat maintainers love it because you don't have to hang about between coats. Bleaches in sun and looks ugly. Best of all, sadly, is lots of coats of conventional varnish.

Arrgh ... it is horrible to be reminded of how much work it was to get rid of all the epoxy coating that I had enthusiastically applied.

I love epoxy by the way - as a glue and laminating resin. I use a gallon a year. Had a lovely cedar r/c model yacht gleaming with epoxy coating - but it didn't sit in the sun all the time.
 
Amulet said:
Epoxy and varnish on everything in sight after the restoration of Amulet. Awful. Too much work to keep it UV protected - even in the UK. I'd never again use epoxy as a coating except on something that was going to spend most of its time out of sunlight. If you must have a labour saving two part polymer, try two part polyurethane, e.g, Skippers six coats a day system. Works quite well, and professional boat maintainers love it because you don't have to hang about between coats. Bleaches in sun and looks ugly. Best of all, sadly, is lots of coats of conventional varnish.

Arrgh ... it is horrible to be reminded of how much work it was to get rid of all the epoxy coating that I had enthusiastically applied.

I love epoxy by the way - as a glue and laminating resin. I use a gallon a year. Had a lovely cedar r/c model yacht gleaming with epoxy coating - but it didn't sit in the sun all the time.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear about all the effort - somewhat wasted :(

Sunshine is something I don't really have to contend with in Scotland. If we get 5 or 6 days a month of real blue sky between April and September that is pretty good going. A week with none is not really all that common, but it's not rare either!

Graeme
 
Amulet said:
e.g, Skippers six coats a day system. Works quite well, and professional boat maintainers love it because you don't have to hang about between coats. Bleaches in sun and looks ugly.
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I'm confused (it don't take a lot, I know)... Why would it be good if it bleaches in sun and looks ugly???????
 
When in Hong Kong recently, I took a few boat trips on the local sampans, which are used as harbour ferries at places like Aberdeen (Hong Kong, not Scotland!). They all have beautifully varnished interior woodwork. This woodwork is exposed to the tropical sun, as the boat is effectively open with roof and canvas side-panels that are rolled up as appropriate. Even the benches running next to the gunwhale - where eposure to the sun is at its greatest - were in perfect condition. The finish is very hard, very smooth and shiny, and has an enormous "depth" to it. It looks like what I'd expect on a 1920s yacht with a full-time crew varnishing it on a daily basis. But these are working boats, with few crew (usually an elderly lady!), motor tires as fenders and obviously as little maintenance as they can get away with. There were a few places where the wood had cracked and the varnish had slightly weathered along the crack - this wasn't a finish that was being perpetually renewed.

I tried asking (through my wife, who is from Hong Kong) what they used, but sadly the chain of translation broke down - Chinese is a lot less precise in the way it specifies things, and the best I could get is that it came in tins from the shop! I also suspect that the lady (the only crew on board!) couldn't believe that we knew enough to be interested, or to understand.

It really is the sort of finish you don't expect to see outside a french-polishing shop, and it obviously stands up to hard daily wear and tropical sunshine. By the looks of the few cracks in it, where the wood underneath had cracked, it wasn't renewed often, either.

Any ideas? It looked like the perfect answer to the problem of varnishing.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
When in Hong Kong recently, I took a few boat trips on the local sampans, which are used as harbour ferries at places like Aberdeen (Hong Kong, not Scotland!). They all have beautifully varnished interior woodwork. This woodwork is exposed to the tropical sun, as the boat is effectively open with roof and canvas side-panels that are rolled up as appropriate. Even the benches running next to the gunwhale - where eposure to the sun is at its greatest - were in perfect condition. The finish is very hard, very smooth and shiny, and has an enormous "depth" to it. It looks like what I'd expect on a 1920s yacht with a full-time crew varnishing it on a daily basis. But these are working boats, with few crew (usually an elderly lady!), motor tires as fenders and obviously as little maintenance as they can get away with. There were a few places where the wood had cracked and the varnish had slightly weathered along the crack - this wasn't a finish that was being perpetually renewed.

I tried asking (through my wife, who is from Hong Kong) what they used, but sadly the chain of translation broke down - Chinese is a lot less precise in the way it specifies things, and the best I could get is that it came in tins from the shop! I also suspect that the lady (the only crew on board!) couldn't believe that we knew enough to be interested, or to understand.

It really is the sort of finish you don't expect to see outside a french-polishing shop, and it obviously stands up to hard daily wear and tropical sunshine. By the looks of the few cracks in it, where the wood underneath had cracked, it wasn't renewed often, either.

Any ideas? It looked like the perfect answer to the problem of varnishing.
Click to expand...

Damned you man!!! ;-) I got all excited expecting to bin my other ideas in favour of the Chinese solution, but you gave us squat.... that hurts..
 
wazza said:
Damned you man!!! ;-) I got all excited expecting to bin my other ideas in favour of the Chinese solution, but you gave us squat.... that hurts..
Click to expand...

Sorry about that; I too was disappointed I couldn't identify what they used! But the chances are that either the stuff is unsafe to use (H&S is not much of an issue in HK!) or that it isn't available over here. But I was disappointed that our communication efforts failed, and may try again to find out what they use when I'm next there. Problem is that we probably need to see the tin; my wife is a native Cantonese speaker (and has a doctorate in Chemistry), but unfortunately Chinese in general and Cantonese in particular seems to have problems with generic descriptions of things. We do visit Hong Kong from time to time; my wife has family there, so we'll try again sometime.

Of course, it may require temperatures in the mid 30s to cure - not much chance of that over here :)
 
AntarcticPilot - You could always get your wife to explain to her family what you (ok, we) want to know & maybe they could investigate further;)
Worth a shot. To the H&S issue...who cares, if it looks good on our boats :D
 
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