Epirb placement

[Oscarpop]

I've read the discussions on the internet about this, and I still am not sure.

In light of recent events, I would like to know what type of epirb you would buy and where you would place it, in an aft cockpit yacht.?

We already have a plb, but need to get an epirb for arc requirements . We are also definitely going with the gps unit .

So it is either internally mounted, or externally mounted in a float free housing. I agree that there is no point in internally mounting a float free housing .

Opinions please? I really am 50/50 on this. I beleive that the chances of a problem happening so rapidly that you do not have a chance to grab an epirb are small. Although those poor men are testament that this sort of thing can happen.

As a second question, is there any real difference between different manufacturers? I figure that they are all manufactured to certain levels. So aside from brand loyalty or battery life, what would you recommend ? It seems as if the interweb is full of offers for large discounts on GPS epirbs

Cheers

 

[William_H]

It will be a bit of a conflict between having it in an easily accessible place and having secure from theft when not on the boat. Consider that the boat may capsize with loss of keel but not sink. Could you dive down to retrieve it. Certainly somewhere near the main hatch would be good. Or boat could start to sink but upright. Again near the main hatch but just inside. retrievable from outside perhaps. All very difficult up to you... Do arc people give guidlines? good lcuk olewill

 

[Tranona]

I've read the discussions on the internet about this, and I still am not sure.

In light of recent events, I would like to know what type of epirb you would buy and where you would place it, in an aft cockpit yacht.?

As usual, and as you have already articulated, there is no clear answer. Unfortunately the nature of emergencies is such that it is difficult to predict what would happen, so you have to look both at what evidence exists from previous emergencies plus your "imagination" of what might happen to you. Arguably the sudden inversion or sinking is rare in yachts, but common in, say, small fishing boats so you tend to find free floating external mounts in the latter and down below in the former.

 

[jwilson]

I've read the discussions on the internet about this, and I still am not sure.

In light of recent events, I would like to know what type of epirb you would buy and where you would place it, in an aft cockpit yacht.?

We already have a plb, but need to get an epirb for arc requirements . We are also definitely going with the gps unit .

So it is either internally mounted, or externally mounted in a float free housing. I agree that there is no point in internally mounting a float free housing .

Opinions please? I really am 50/50 on this. I beleive that the chances of a problem happening so rapidly that you do not have a chance to grab an epirb are small. Although those poor men are testament that this sort of thing can happen.

As a second question, is there any real difference between different manufacturers? I figure that they are all manufactured to certain levels. So aside from brand loyalty or battery life, what would you recommend ? It seems as if the interweb is full of offers for large discounts on GPS epirbs

Cheers

Probably many more boats invert with keel still attached than with keel off. The lost keel is a big topic at the moment, but is actually rare.

Even if your boat is one of the modern beamy low-AVS production cruiser type that will stay inverted for quite some time (till free surface water below increases enough to reduce inverted stability), as long as the keel is still attached it will eventually right - maybe 10-20 minutes though. The immediate danger there is not to those below (who will be knocked about a bit but hopefully safe for that time - I've been in an inverted yacht) but to those clipped on on deck, possibly trapped underwater on a short harness to the cockpit. They have to either unclip or cut their harness lines if they are trapped underwater.

It may be very counter-intuitive, and incredibly hard to remember in a moment of extreme shock, but if you are the in the cockpit and trapped underwater, you would probably be much safer opening the hatch and getting into the cabin rather than getting to the outside sea. Yes, opening the hatch lets lots of water into the hull, and is against all the "keep washboards in and hatch shut" advice, but that advice was formulated in the days when most ocean-going yachts would self-right fast. Inside there is plenty of air, and as water comes in she will right eventually. Outside and untethered you have a smooth hull to try to cling to whilst being washed around by breaking seas.

The death from the Beneteau "Ocean Madam" (see MAIB report) was of a crewman in the cockpit, swept away after presumably unclipping whilst inverted. The yacht itself righted despite hatch boards being lost, and stayed afloat long after the remaining two crew departed (accidentally) in the liferaft - the painter broke. The yacht was later deliberately sunk by the French Navy as a danger to navigation.

Having been in extreme knockdown/inversion conditions, I would personally keep a single EPIRB safely below. Stuff goes AWOL from deck stowage far too easily in the sort of conditions when it might be needed. The ultimate would be two, one float-free on the transom and one below, but do you have two separate safety belts on when you drive your car?

 

[Twister_Ken]

I'd have thought that in the sort of conditions that would knock a boat over to 180º, the same conditions would roll it back upright PDQ - if we're not talking ultra wide beam and very low ballast ratios.

If you look at a typical stability curve…

you'll see that the rate of change accelerates as the boat approaches 180º - probably with enough momentum to stop it sticking at 180º and enough to keep it going to a complete 360º although possibly with the rig in pieces and the sails in rags.

My choice would be the EPIRB just inside the companionway - easy to get at from below or from the cockpit.

 

[KellysEye]

We kept our EPIRB by the steps to the cockpit, it is highly unlikely that you wouldn't be able to grab it along with the grab bag if you had to abandon the yacht. Also a yacht next to us in Trinidad had the
coastguard arrive at 2am because torrential rain had triggered his EPIRB which was on the aft quarter. We had one with an on/off switch. Ideally keep the life raft on the aft rail not in a locker. There is a brand
of EPIRB that they set fire to and it still worked but I cant remember what it is.

Generally boats don't capsize unless they in the Southern Ocean in a storm. Others that do are generally lightweight boats that haven't been able to listen to a forecast and thus can't avoid bad weather.
SSB is the way to go if ocean cruising.

 

[Tranona]

.

Others that do are generally lightweight boats that haven't been able to listen to a forecast and thus can't avoid bad weather.

Rather a sweeping statement. All sorts of boats have capsized - light weight or heavy weight. Propensity to capsize is primarily a function of stability, not weight. So you can get heavy displacement boats with low AVS and righting moment and light displacement boats with high AVS.

 

[richardbrennan]

In answer to the question on brands, I was advised to go for one where you can replace the battery yourself.

 

[nigelmercier]

I recently moved my EPIRB from the galley area to an area by the companionway that I can reach from half way down.

Really handy having that massive picture in the thread

 

[Martin_J]

Also a yacht next to us in Trinidad had the
coastguard arrive at 2am because torrential rain had triggered his EPIRB which was on the aft quarter. We had one with an on/off switch.

Even with the manual on/off switch - EPIRBS are water activated (once out of their storage bracket), usually by a couple of contacts on the bottom. It is PLBs that do not have the water activation.

I guess if stored in the bracket then they'll not be set off by water - Perhaps the one in Trinidad was knocked out of the storage bracket.. oops.

Our EPIRB is kept in the grab bag in the liferaft locker in the cockpit (but still in the holder so that if the grab bag gets wet it will not activate).

ISAF Cat 2 rules stated that the only item in the liferaft lock shall be the liferaft but the inspectors seemed happy to allow the grab bag to be stored with the raft.

 

[prv]

Really handy having that massive picture in the thread

I didn't even realise it was massive until you said that and I did some experiments. My browser shrinks it on the fly to fit the width of the window.

I think even crappy old versions of IE did something similar.

What are you using?

Pete

 

[Martin_J]

Firefox.. and it's a BIIIIGGGGGG picture.. Had to scroll right to see the upside down part of the curve...

 

[Twister_Ken]

Rather a sweeping statement. All sorts of boats have capsized - light weight or heavy weight. Propensity to capsize is primarily a function of stability, not weight. So you can get heavy displacement boats with low AVS and righting moment and light displacement boats with high AVS.

Not necessarily disagreeing, but - providing the keel stays on - my understanding of the most 'popular' reason for a capsize is the relationship between the height of a breaking wave, and the beam of the vessel. Essentially, if a wave dumps sufficient tonnage of water on the deck, the boat will go over. The upside(?) is that waves that size are likely to roll her back up again.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Really handy having that massive picture in the thread

Apologies. My browser (Safari) scales images to fit, so I didn't realise it was a biggie. Just checked it on Firefox, which doesn't scale it. I'll shrink the image and edit the post.

PS Dunnit.

 

[Tranona]

Not necessarily disagreeing, but - providing the keel stays on - my understanding of the most 'popular' reason for a capsize is the relationship between the height of a breaking wave, and the beam of the vessel. Essentially, if a wave dumps sufficient tonnage of water on the deck, the boat will go over. The upside(?) is that waves that size are likely to roll her back up again.

Yes, that is right and why the stability bit of the RCD differentiates categories primarily by wave height. Pity that they used the label "Ocean" in relation to the maximum wave height when as we all know large waves can occur close to land and boats have been known to capsize within touching distance almost of land - nowhere near an "Ocean". Needles Channel and entrances to some harbours on the western European coast for example.

 

[Bobc]

Also consider ALL the reasons that you might want to set-off the EPIRB.

Fire
Serious injury
Serious illness (life-threatening)
MOB

It's not always sinking or loosing a keel.