Ensign use

[pands10]

hi all im new to all this and need a little advice
My boat came with an ensign could some one please advisee me when + whereshould i use it?
Thanks

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[whisper]

Welcome.
In theory, if you are on board you should fly the ensign ( if it's a national one ) from around dawn, or as soon as you arise, til Sunset. All approximately, as I've forgotten the exact wording as per various RYA courses. /forums/images/icons/blush.gif

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[Lizzie_B]

If it is the ensign of the boat's nation of registry you can choose to wear it at a point as far aft as possible when in home waters, but are legally required to wear the ensign of the boat's nation of registry when outside your home waters. The British maritime tradition established by Samuel Pepys is to wear the Ensign between morning colours (0800 I think,but an almanac would tell you) until sunset, or evening colours when sunset is later. Again, I think evening colours is 2000, but an almanac would tell you. In Britain, if it is not a standard red ensign, but one of the many priviledged or special ensigns it should not be used unless you have checked your entitlement to use it. Other nations will each have their own traditions.

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[AuntyRinum]

In harbour 0800 hours to sunset or usually 2100 in summertime. 0900 to sunset in the wintertime (between 1st Nov and 14th Feb inclusive).
Yachts take their time from the senior ship present, in other words, if there is a Royal Naval vessel in port you raise or strike the ensign when it does. If no senior ship present then the principal Yacht Club in the port should give the time by hoisting and lowering the ensign on its flagstaff.
Your ensign should also be hoisted if there is sufficient light for it to be seen when passing or meeting a Royal Navy vessel (that's the rule but by common usage when passing any warship) when it is also dipped in salute.


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[davidfox]

I am sure the 'Bunting tosser' on the war ship, responsible for dipping the Ensign in salute will be well pleased if we all start dipping our Ensign.

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[AuntyRinum]

Can't help that, that's what he or she's paid for.
I always dip the ensign as a matter of courtesy. These traditions should be kept going and are a mark of respect. Even had the RY Brittania dip once, if they don't like it why do they respond? Until the MOD says otherwise, will continue.
In fact until a few years ago RN vessels were required to enter into their log details of vessels that didn't dip to them.
You do it your way and I'll do it their way.

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[Mudhook]

Now you've been advised about all the arcane madness that surrounds the use and abuse of ensigns, perhaps a word on actual use is in order. Assuming we are talking about the 'Red Duster', most folk do seem to be aware the correct usage but very, very few adhere to it. A healthy dose of sanity prevails: most folk seem to hang it off a pole on the stern, or off the backstay, simply when they are aboard or around their boats. Mine stays out 24 hours when I am aboard and comes in when I lock the boat up on the mooring, and I don't think that's very unusual.

Personally I rather like the red duster and am proud to sail under it. My slack attitude to etiquette has never caused alarm or apoplexy that I've been aware of. Possibly someone in the Royal **** Yacht Club has felt that it's further evidence that the county is going to the dogs, but they've never bothered to tell me.

It is said that if you 'dip' your ensign to a passing minesweeper or other Royal Navy boat they must return the saulute, and jokes abound about hapless naval ratings rushing onto windswept helicopter platforms to return the courtesy. I have never witnessed this myself and try and avoid getting close enough to RN vessels that my ensign can be even identified.

Wind and diesel smoke will see to it that a bright new ensign will look like it's been round the word twice in very short order, so the much-travelled look will come naturally.

The Red Duster is an honourable tradition that I'm happy to continue, but I don't think the niceties of flag etiquette are much observed in the 21st century.

Regards, Mudhook.



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[Koeketiene]

That's what we are paid for.... thanks very much.

What you don't seem to realise is that at times we might have other things to done than have people run around dipping ensigns. Running a modern warship is a complex business - especially in narrow waters, entering/leaving harbour. And that's the time we meet most yachts.
We try to return the courtesy if we can, but I would not move heaven and earth to do it. I certainly did not have it noted in the log. Traditions are fine - but there's a time and place for everything.
All IMHO of course - but what do I know?

<hr width=100% size=1>Fair winds.
If not... reef early!

 

[AuntyRinum]

Then the MOD should change the rules so that we all know where we stand and I'll be happy to comply.
Dissapointed that it's the RN themselves who find it a nuisance, so do I but I'm a civvy and it's the RN who made the rule.
That's my last post on this subject. There have been too many "ensign wars" on this site.
I was just replying to the original poster who asked what the correct procedure is.



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[AuntyRinum]

"most folk do seem to be aware the correct usage but very, very few adhere to it. "

In my experience, most folk do adhere to it. Those that don't mark themselves out as too idle to take it down, or newbies who don't know the rules. The fact that nobody mentions it to them is because they would expect to be told to mind their own business. Quite rightly too, one of the great things with boating is that you are free to do what you like within reason.

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[pands10]

thanks very much everyone, i just didn't have a clue when to use it but now i know thanks again
from a complete novice - but learning every day!

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[AuntyRinum]

"but learning every day! "

We're all learning every day too. A very healthy attitude. You never stop learning with boats and the sea, and the day you think you know it all is when it get's dangerous.

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[Koeketiene]

There are 3 kinds of experienced sailors:

1. the retired
2. the dead
3. the insane

Everybody else is just learing.

<hr width=100% size=1>Fair winds.
If not... reef early!

 

[gjeffery]

For interest only, should red dip to blue?

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[Koeketiene]

In a word: no

<hr width=100% size=1>Fair winds.
If not... reef early!

 

[Koeketiene]

In a word: no.

When it comes to dipping to warships, a bit of common sense is called for.
Coming in and out of Pompey sometimes you get the impression that yotties are taking the piss. Small warships in particular are already undermanned. I simply can't afford to send my ROT back and forth like a blue arsed fly to dip the ensign; I need him on his radio.

<hr width=100% size=1>Fair winds.
If not... reef early!

 

[AuntyRinum]

Definitely not!
Oh damn, I said I wouldn't post any more about this. It's a bit of a hobby horse with me. How sad is that?

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[chas]

I do not think the RN did "make the rule". Like many other quaint customes, its origins date back to a practical gesture. I believe it is derived from the days when a merchantman, if he saw a warship, would strike his topsails to show that he had no intent of attacking or running away. This eventually gave way to lowering their ensign (perhaps they did not have enough sailors!).

IMVHO it is a nice tradition and is more a sign of good sea manners than an imposition by the RN.

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[jonT]

"Coming in and out of Pompey sometimes you get the impression that yotties are taking the piss. Small warships in particular are already undermanned. I simply can't afford to send my ROT back and forth like a blue arsed fly to dip the ensign; I need him on his radio. "

when going in and out of pompy is'nt the ensign rigged on the ensign staff on the arse end being manned by top part of ship??? whats your RO T doing down there

hehe

<hr width=100% size=1>24 beers in a case ! 24 hours in a day coincedence???????? i think not

 

[TheBoatman]

Joe
I couldn’t agree more, there’s so much B****cks that surrounds ensigns. I believe that if you have one flying that’s about it. It doesn’t matter if it’s flying from the right cross tree/yard/pole so long as its up there.
If you forget to bring it in over night, so what?
I did once dip the ensign to a RN vessel and had the resultant decky running around but when push comes to shove What the hell?


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