Ensign etiquette

[Stoneness]

Flag ettiquette

A long time ago I was on a ship that discharged cargo in a port in Algeria. The standard flag for this vessel was a three and a half yard red ensign. This was always flown (worn?) on the blunt end in the correct manner as the Master was a real pro and a stickler for correct ettiquette. He would always dip the ensign to passing men o' war and the like.

As we approached Algeria it was pointed out by the agent that the authorities would take great offence if the national ensign was larger than the Algerian courtesy flag. There was much scrabbling in the flag locker by the mate.

The end result was that during our time alongside we flew (wore?) a red ensign that appeared to be the size of a pocket handkerchief. The ship looked silly but the Algerian authorities were delighted with our courtesy.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

The perch of british sea power was by no means self appointed either. The Netherlands was a spent force by the days of Nelson, and Trafalgar saw the Royal Navy defeat both the Spanish and French navies in one go.

I seem to recall that the battle of Camperdown (against the Dutch navy!) was regarded as the hardest fought naval battle of the Napoleonic wars. The Dutch suffered from the problem that the compromises needed to give their ships the necessary shoal draft made them less capable as warships.

 

[pendlecats]

........... the authorities would take great offence if the national ensign was larger than the Algerian courtesy flag. .............

The courtesy flag for visiting yachts is a small red ensign, if the visiting boat's skipper used to be in the services (colonial?) etc.. could/should his courtesy flag be a blue one.

We should after all make sure our visitors are properly dressed, shouldn't we

 

[snowleopard]

OK, now for another aspect of ensigns - the ones that make a political statement, for example.

 

[David_Jersey]

To be honest I think a EU Ships Registry (with the EU flag as the Official Ensign) would be a good idea.

But making up your own Ensign? in UK waters I do not see a problem as no requirement to fly the Red (White/Blue/Pink) Ensign at all.

After all we are not like all those insecure foreigners desperately clinging onto their flag. are we?

 

[Ubergeekian]

Your ensign is no concern of mine. That is my whole point.

We agree, then, that the whole idea of warrants and so on is nonsense, and that people should be able to fly whatever ensign they choose?

 

[Ubergeekian]

OK, now for another aspect of ensigns - the ones that make a political statement, for example.

What's political about that?

 

[David_Jersey]

 

[Litotes]

We agree, then, that the whole idea of warrants and so on is nonsense, and that people should be able to fly whatever ensign they choose?

No, we do not agree. I don't decry other people's interest in different customs and traditions and see no reason why they should not maintain them if they wish. Neither do I decry your decision to use your Scottish ensign.

I repeat - your ensign is no concern of mine. It is none of my business. Neither is the blue ensign, the defaced red or any other ensign, usual or unusual. I make my choices (mine is an ordinary red ensign) and you make yours. OK by me. If we meet, I shall draw my conclusions about you from my experience of you as a person, not the colour of your flag. I hope you will afford me the same courtesy. And I hope you would do the same for any of my friends whom you may encounter with a blue, or even a white, ensign at the stern or the peak.

I do think that it would be an excellent thing if people would be a little more circumspect about projecting their own assumptions on to others on the basis of the colour of a flag, or on the basis of any other stereotype ("raggie/mobo"; AWB/MAB; Solent/East Coast; Scot/English - you name it) Really, could anything be sillier?

 

[colvic987]

colregs or anchor threads next

Take your choice, which one will it be?????!!!

 

[VESPER]

New to this forum so excuse any gaffs

My flag is the red, which was the senior of the three fleets for what its worth. I also fly the Kriegsmarine 1918 flag from the crosstrees which serves as our `overtking' Jolly Roger - being a german built boat and inveterate wind up merchant

However i've noticed this summer a lot of foreign private and commercial vessel flying the Union Jack as a courtesy flag what is that about??? I think i'd rather see them fly the dreaded EU flag and done with it.

 

[Lakesailor]

Probably because we are stupid enough to have several flags and expect Johnny Foreigner to know as much (more actually) about them than any natural-born chav.

 

[bilbobaggins]

I knew there was a reason why my ensigns lasted twice as long as some others. Now I know.

And you can also 'end-for-end' them, like my mate Yelbis does, to get even more wear 'n tear from 'em.

.....Honorary Yorkshireman, or what?

 

[Refueler]

Oh Dear .... Troll ... Troll .....

In the Baltic - you have Finn's that are religious about ensigns up / down and all others who generally don't give a monkeys wotsits !

My ensigns stay up 365 days a year on both boats that need 'em ... the Latvian Courtesy flags similarly permanent !

Better things to worry about !!

 

[puddock]

I thought it was the Scotts who were mean!

The Scotts ??? Is that Scott of the Antarctic and Ronnie Scott of Jazz fame?
Surely he doesn't mean the Scottish does he?
Oh well, at least he didn't use an appostrophe.

 

[puddock]

So you'd have no problem, then, if I swapped my Scottish Red Ensign for a UK Blue Ensign?

Bloody Hell - Do we have an ensign? When was that brought in? Here's me, sat here with the British Red Ensign, looking a right prat.
I better tell my cousin Geordie about that - he would love to wear it on his Trawler next time they land in Denmark or Norway.

 

[Litotes]

Finn's that are religious about ensigns ......monkeys wotsits...... boats........flags......things

The logic of the apostrophe plural escapes me. Why "Finn's" but not ensign's, whotsit's, boat's, flag's and thing's?

And what about giving "monkey's "? its proper apostrophe, since that really is in the genitive (or possessive) case? (Of course, if you have the whotsits of more than one monkey in mind, then monkeys' would be appropriate)

Alas! Alack!

 

[mcframe]

What's political about that?

Nothing - it just depends on where & when it's worn.

If you're under 50 tons and not entering/leaving a foreign port, nor hailed by the Navy, then there's no problem.
(Yes, I'd like the chance to argue MSA95 § 4(1)(a) "Improper Colours" in court, but think that using the port signal halyard makes that unlikely

 

[puddock]

Do you think that Anchor Ball might be a touch on the small side?

 

[mcframe]

Do you think that Anchor Ball might be a touch on the small side?

Silly Boy!

It's not the *size* of the anchor ball that matters - it's the weight & cross-section shape that matters - to allow it to 'dig-in' to the air & reset as the wind shifts . Mind you, some folks claim that the size & weight of halyard used to 'set' it are more important...

Anyway, that's only the 'lunch-stop' anchor ball :->