english term is needed

[p435]

There are signs with 2 black triangles. They indicate if a dangerous area needs to passed in N, E, S or W.

E. g. 2 triangles pointing up means passing the of the sign north of it is needed; 2 triangles pointing down means the sign must be passed at its southern side; etc.

How are these signs called in English?

Thanks for helping a non-native speaker.

 

[Aardee]

There are signs with 2 black triangles. They indicate if a dangerous area needs to passed in N, E, S or W.

E. g. 2 triangles pointing up means passing the of the sign north of it is needed; 2 triangles pointing down means the sign must be passed at its southern side; etc.

How are these signs called in English?

Thanks for helping a non-native speaker.

I suspect you mean Cardinal Marks/ Cardinals

 

[coopec]

I am only vaguely aware of what you are talking about but I just searched cardinal markers and got this. Any help?

https://www.google.com.au/search?tb...abwKHWvtDrwQ4lYILSgA&biw=1064&bih=609&dpr=1.5

 

[MonniotC]

These are called Cardinal Marks, or Cardinal Buoys.

 

[macd]

The more usual expression is cardinal marks, as Aardee suggested.

Should you need another english term, "Michaelmas" is favoured by the posher schools. Non-english speakers should ignore this.

 

[Tranona]

If you are using English pilot books or sailing directions you will find the term "cardinal" used frequently. For example "Turn to port after passing the N. Cardinal"

 

[Biggles Wader]

Best to get this right as passing on the wrong side is a cardinal sin.

 

[Roberto]

May I ask an additional question, is "mark" the specific name of the object above the signal?
Example a North Cardinal buoy, the two upward pointing triangles are the "mark"? Or is cardinal mark the name of the buoy as a whole?
Likewise the can/single triangle on lateral buoys.

Example, should the two triangles of a cardinal buoy be missing, would a NavWarning specify "XY Cardinal Buoy, marks missing"?




add: macd, to cause great astonishment among your Italian friends, you may slip in a conversation that a buoy has lost its "miragli", probably one in one thousand knows that term

 

[Roberto]

May I ask an additional question, is "mark" the specific name of the object above the signal?
Example a North Cardinal buoy, the two upward pointing triangles are the "mark"? Or is cardinal mark the name of the buoy as a whole?
Likewise the can/single triangle on lateral buoys.

Example, should the two triangles of a cardinal buoy be missing, would a NavWarning specify "XY Cardinal Buoy, marks missing"?




add: macd, to cause great astonishment among your Italian friends, you may slip in a conversation that a buoy has lost its "miragli", probably one in one thousand knows that term

answering to myself: top-marks I suppose

 

[Graham376]

May I ask an additional question, is "mark" the specific name of the object above the signal?
Example a North Cardinal buoy, the two upward pointing triangles are the "mark"? Or is cardinal mark the name of the buoy as a whole?
Likewise the can/single triangle on lateral buoys.

Example, should the two triangles of a cardinal buoy be missing, would a NavWarning specify "XY Cardinal Buoy, marks missing"?

Although most cardinal marks are on buoys, they can also be on piles so I suppose "mark" is a better term. Nav warning may be given if anyone has reported the triangles missing but the colour coding will still be there although can be sometimes be hard to determine if very fouled.

 

[Seajet]

For Cardinal Marks/ Markers, a good rule to remember is ' Wests Have Waists ' - so if two triangles one up, one down, with their wide bases meeting, the danger is to the west.

Once in harbour if one cannot see the colour due to sunlight etc, the rule for topmarks is ' cans to port, cones to starboard ' when entering a British harbour.

 

[Roberto]

Although most cardinal marks are on buoys, they can also be on piles so I suppose "mark" is a better term. Nav warning may be given if anyone has reported the triangles missing but the colour coding will still be there although can be sometimes be hard to determine if very fouled.

thanks Graham,
so if a cardinal signal on pile should be totally wiped away they would say "cardinal mark missing", if only the two triangles were absent but the coloured pole still there then "cardinal top-marks missing" would be more appropriate
?

 

[Seajet]

I think most cardinal marks are on buoys, but I know a few which are on perches.

I've just had a go at Chichester harbourmaster as a perch down our way has been left without a ( port, can ) topmark for months, but their rare patrol boats are eager to tie-wrap snotty messages onto boats with last years' harbour dues plaque, even admitting ' we know you've paid, but this isn't the right colour ' ...

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

For Cardinal Marks/ Markers, a good rule to remember is ' Wests Have Waists ' - so if two triangles one up, one down, with their wide bases meeting, the danger is to the west.

Once in harbour if one cannot see the colour due to sunlight etc, the rule for topmarks is ' cans to port, cones to starboard ' when entering a British harbour.

Sorry but what you have described, i.e., bases meeting, is a top-mark that should be passed to the EAST of it.

 

[LadyInBed]

thanks Graham,
so if a cardinal signal on pile should be totally wiped away they would say "cardinal mark missing", if only the two triangles were absent but the coloured pole still there then "cardinal top-marks missing" would be more appropriate
?

That sounds about right. If it were a buoy, I'm pretty sure that they would say Cardinal Buoy missing..
Incidentally, I think the term Mark came from the Air Force. When the navigator wanted a chance of course he would give the new course and say "Turn on the mark"......... Mark.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

May I ask an additional question, is "mark" the specific name of the object above the signal?

No, it would be true to say that all the objects that show you where dangers and points of interest are are called marks. Marks can be buoys, posts, beacons etc.

But because this is English, we've decided to confuse by saying that the signifying parts (the cones) are the topmark.

Which could make the radio announcement something like "and Prince Consort, the mark to the North of Cowes which is an IALA cardinal buoy is damaged and its topmark is missing".

But for the buoy at the bottom West of Southampton Water it could be "and Mark, the mark off Calshot which is a yellow racing mark is marred and its topmark is missing".

 

[macd]

No, it would be true to say that all the objects that show you where dangers and points of interest are are called marks. Marks can be buoys, posts, beacons etc.

But because this is English, we've decided to confuse by saying that the signifying parts (the cones) are the topmark.

Which could make the radio announcement something like "and Prince Consort, the mark to the North of Cowes which is an IALA cardinal buoy is damaged and its topmark is missing".

But for the buoy at the bottom West of Southampton Water it could be "and Mark, the mark off Calshot which is a yellow racing mark is marred and its topmark is missing".

I can already hear Roberto chuckling. He loves that sort anglo nonsense.

 

[Steve_N]

For Cardinal Marks/ Markers, a good rule to remember is ' Wests Have Waists ' - so if two triangles one up, one down, with their wide bases meeting, the danger is to the west.

I prefer 'Wasp-wasted women are Westerners', after all in these days of routine obesity wastes come in all shapes and sizes.

 

[PaulRainbow]

For Cardinal Marks/ Markers, a good rule to remember is ' Wests Have Waists ' - so if two triangles one up, one down, with their wide bases meeting, the danger is to the west.

Wests may have waists, but the mark you describe is an East cardinal, which does indeed mean the danger is to the West, as you pass to the East of an East marker.

I'm sure you know all of that, but your post is a bit confused by talking of West marks, then describing an East mark and it's purpose.

 

[john_morris_uk]

That sounds about right. If it were a buoy, I'm pretty sure that they would say Cardinal Buoy missing..
Incidentally, I think the term Mark came from the Air Force. When the navigator wanted a chance of course he would give the new course and say "Turn on the mark"......... Mark.

I think you’ll find ships were doing that sort of thing (on similar sorts of commands from the pilot or navigating officer) a long time before planes started doing it.

Wests may have waists, but the mark you describe is an East cardinal, which does indeed mean the danger is to the West, as you pass to the East of an East marker.

I'm sure you know all of that, but your post is a bit confused by talking of West marks, then describing an East mark and it's purpose.

Where the danger is relative to the mark needs to be checked on a chart. It’s not always straightforward and to just say, we’ll pass to the West of that West Cardinal can land you in all sorts of trouble.

May I suggest that one should always check the chart! (Or plotter...) Assumption is the mother of all sorts of muck ups. (Other versions available.)