Engine oil vs transmission oil

[coopec]

I didn't know this:
Oct 12, 2016 - Most motorcycle engines share engine oil with gearbox oil, which means the oil has to do a different job than in an engine-only cases

 

[Skylark]

......It's that there have been problems with the cone clutch on the Yanmar SD 50 Saildrive (which I have). On another forum there were comments suggesting it would be better to use GL4 rather than GL5 gear oil. I can't see whether the Yanmar recommended Quicksilver High Performance Gear Lube is GL 4 or 5.
Anyway, it got me thinking ...

While other forumites fondly reminisce..........

The SD50 is the Achilles Heel of the Yanmar range and it’s finally been replaced by the SD60.

I have the same gearbox. I would be very wary of taking advice from a Sailing forum on such an important issue

The recommended lubricant, Quicksilver HPGL, is fully loaded with additives. There’s more chance of prolonging the need to lap the cone clutches using this. I would ignore advice from an amateur alchemist to use GL4.

 

[macd]

The KTM 500 EXC has a 30 hour service interval.

A competition bike is scarcely relevant here. Neither is the 30-day warranty.

 

[srah1953]

"The recommended lubricant, Quicksilver HPGL, is fully loaded with additives. There’s more chance of prolonging the need to lap the cone clutches using this. I would ignore advice from an amateur alchemist to use GL4."


It seems to be the opposite of "heads I win, tails you lose". It seems that one is screwed no matter what you do. The problem is that Yanmar sold a faulty saildrive (with significant cost to a large number of sailors), so how can I trust their advice on the right gear oil?
But you are probably right.
Thanks

 

[VicS]

"The recommended lubricant, Quicksilver HPGL, is fully loaded with additives. There’s more chance of prolonging the need to lap the cone clutches using this. I would ignore advice from an amateur alchemist to use GL4."


It seems to be the opposite of "heads I win, tails you lose". It seems that one is screwed no matter what you do. The problem is that Yanmar sold a faulty saildrive (with significant cost to a large number of sailors), so how can I trust their advice on the right gear oil?
But you are probably right.
Thanks

Yanmar specify only the Quicksilver High Performance Gear Oil for the SD50, when used with JH3 JH4 and JH5 engines.

(SAE 10W30 is specified for a SD20 and 1GM10 and either GL4 or GL5, SAE 90 or 80W90 for a SD20 with YM engines)

It seems immaterial whether the Quicksilver HPGL oil is GL4, GL5, or some other spec It is the only oil approved for the SD50 fitted to a 3JH5E engine

 

[eddystone]

I used to put engine oil in the gearbox of a Volvo 2002 but gearbox of new Beta specifies ATF - are there differences in ATF or could it be anything from Halfords?

 

[RichardS]

I used to put engine oil in the gearbox of a Volvo 2002 but gearbox of new Beta specifies ATF - are there differences in ATF or could it be anything from Halfords?

ATF is ATF so the Halfords stuff is fine.

Richard

 

[JumbleDuck]

GL4 vs GL5. Can't remember which way around it is, but one has more of the additive which makes it stick to the gears. And which eats yellow metal bearings. So use the 'GL rating' your box manufacturer recommends.

GL5 eats bronze components. GL4 is getting harder to find, but I stock up at Wilkos.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Also, my old mate would get very vexed when people spoke of gear oil when they meant ATF. Apparently transmission oil (for planetary gear auto boxes) is very different to gear oil (or was 20 years ago when I knew him).

The overdrive on my Herald is very happy with standard EP90 gear oil, which it shares with the gearbox. I think the point about ATF is that it works in the torque convertor as well as the gears.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I think the point about ATF is that it works in the torque convertor as well as the gears.

The ATF in an old type automatic gearbox also powers the hydraulic brake bands nd the hydraulic valves that operate the gear change operation.

 

[Skylark]

It seems to be the opposite of "heads I win, tails you lose". It seems that one is screwed no matter what you do. The problem is that Yanmar sold a faulty saildrive (with significant cost to a large number of sailors), so how can I trust their advice on the right gear oil?
But you are probably right.
Thanks

I feel your pain, I really do.

May I suggest that you avoid Googling "SD50 issues" as it will do nothing for your angst

Mine is now 5 years old and done just less than 300 hours. Regardless of use, I change the oil each year. The recommended Quicksilver oil is incredibly expensive but I "bit the bullet" and bought 20 litres to save a few pounds. As I said above, it's better to stick to their recommendation. I trust Yanmar more than a well meaning, armchair tribologist.

Most other Yanmar sail drives use simple dog engagement. A cone clutch should give a smoother engagement but the SD50 has a reputation for early life failure. Lapping the cones brings them back to life but it's not designed for easy access and turns into a major issue. Just like changing the hull seal. Nothing wrong with the design but incomplete engineering as service and maintenance seems to have been ignored. The SD60 replacement has reverted to dog engagement. KISS philosophy is best applied to our boats.

Some SD50s have long, trouble free lives. I'm hoping that mine will be one. I always engage drive with care and never "crash" forward to astern.

 

[srah1953]

There used to be a saying "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".
On the other hand "in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king".

 

[srah1953]

PS I used to work on the assumption that giving the engine a "good run" was good for it. Now I'm thinking "minimal hours = minimal use of the saildrive", thereby delaying day of dealing with cone clutch problems.

 

[Rafiki]

On my 'latest generation' Volvo engine in the boat D2-40 the original owner's handbook specifies Gear oil for the gearbox, but if you go to the Volvo website and print off the same handbook it now specifies engine Oil 15-40, it doesn't appear to relate this to engine numbers from xx date, so I guess in this case either will do, but I wouldn't mix them!

 

[coaster63]

GL5 eats bronze components. GL4 is getting harder to find, but I stock up at Wilkos.

.
Hi mr jumble classic VW beetles /campers hate GL5 ,at the moment running this in camper,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Smith-Allan-EP90-Gear-Oil-API-GL4-GL-4-5-Litre-5L-/302556071920

 

[JumbleDuck]

It seems immaterial whether the Quicksilver HPGL oil is GL4, GL5, or some other spec It is the only oil approved for the SD50 fitted to a 3JH5E engine

As far as I can see, it uses an antimony-based EP additive. GL5 is sulfur-phosphorus and GL4 is some alkane or other.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The ATF in an old type automatic gearbox also powers the hydraulic brake bands nd the hydraulic valves that operate the gear change operation.

An overdrive also uses the oil as a hydraulic fluid, so I think it's the torque convertor use which is the limiting factor.

 

[JumbleDuck]

.
Hi mr jumble classic VW beetles /campers hate GL5 ,at the moment running this in camper,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Smith-Allan-EP90-Gear-Oil-API-GL4-GL-4-5-Litre-5L-/302556071920

I buy 10W40, 20W50 and LHM in bulk from Smith and Allan. The trick, as you may have found, is to buy on eBay, because they charge exactly the same there as they do on their own website or Amazon, but post free.

I had a couple of Bay Windows in my time. Ruinously expensive but great fun.