Emergency rudder

[Deleted member 36384]

Do you all have an emergency tiller which fits the top if the rudder shaft?

My steering system is all bevel gearboxes, torque tubes, universal joints and tiller arms. It is pretty robust and I doubt that much can fail but you never know. I have had a hidden universal joint nearly seize up due to lack of lubrication. I do have a tiller and shaft which fits through a hole in the aft cabin roof. Not the most comfortable of places to steer from.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

What to do if the rudder is lost is one of the standard questions that I ask while scrutineering for offshore races. Most come up with the spi-pole plus floorboard or drogues from each quarter. My standard answer, accompanied by a smile, is "My duty is to draw your attention to it, not to argue about the merits; after all YOU are going to be out there while I shall be at home watching television..."

(1) Spi-pole plus floor board: for it to work you need one hell of an effort to make it swing to where you want it. The leverage of the outboard part is phenomenal, even if you use two tackles or the winches, and can easily break the pole. VERY easily...

(2) Trailing drogues: Could possibly work IF you are in open water, miles from any land. Some years ago we had a racer called Loki and they had said that they would be using drogues. I gave my usual remark. A couple of days later I had a call from the race office at half past two in the morning. Loki had lost her rudder some three miles NW of Palermo with a F8 wind... from NW. They had tried to use their drogues and, of course, they could not control their boat. The crew were airlifted by helicopter of the Italian Guardia Costiera. Loki was a total loss on the rocks near Palermo, fortunately with no loss of life.

One emergency rudder that has the best chance of working is one that is in a cassette and can be hung on pre-fitted pintles on the transom. Having it in a cassette allows a better chance of hanging it in bad weather. Once that is in place the blade can be lowered into the water as necessary. It is not a fool-proof solution but it is the best that I have come across.

Your boats, your lives, your choice...

 

[bikedaft]

If you think you may need one I suggest something solid is prepared, not a vague idea involving bunk boards. With a transom it would be easy to have pintles already fitted and a rudder to suit. However, in heavy weather that would be difficult to fit and a long sweep and chock/pin/crutch might be needed, even have a fitting already on a suitable spar/ spin pole.
The Raz de Sein bass fishermen have an underslung balanced rudder to forward wheel steering and a simple transom mounted one also for when they are aft working.
When my rudder came adrift (note to self: don't use nylocks twice) I came home with a drogue (round buff or danbuoy) trailing on the landing derrick swung out to stbd, the boat screws to port, I stood aft and hauled it in and out, very effective. If you can't rig a blade then a drogue off a spar lashed to a pushpit support might work. A round buoy or fender drags very effectively.

You previously suggested using a buoy as a drogue - thanks - it works a treat

A weight eg chain, and a medium sized buoy led to two ropes ie one to each quarter seems the simplest, easiest etc.

Or if motoring, out to one side only, raise and lower as you did

 

[macd]

(2) Trailing drogues: Could possibly work IF you are in open water, miles from any land...

That was what the couple did in the example I mentioned in post #3. They had plenty of time and space to experiment, and experiment they did, with success. They were in the Trades heading west to the Antilles at the time; it might have been a very different matter heading east on the return trip.

 

[Hadenough]

What to do if the rudder is lost is one of the standard questions that I ask while scrutineering for offshore races. Most come up with the spi-pole plus floorboard or drogues from each quarter. My standard answer, accompanied by a smile, is "My duty is to draw your attention to it, not to argue about the merits; after all YOU are going to be out there while I shall be at home watching television..."

(1) Spi-pole plus floor board: for it to work you need one hell of an effort to make it swing to where you want it. The leverage of the outboard part is phenomenal, even if you use two tackles or the winches, and can easily break the pole. VERY easily...

(2) Trailing drogues: Could possibly work IF you are in open water, miles from any land. Some years ago we had a racer called Loki and they had said that they would be using drogues. I gave my usual remark. A couple of days later I had a call from the race office at half past two in the morning. Loki had lost her rudder some three miles NW of Palermo with a F8 wind... from NW. They had tried to use their drogues and, of course, they could not control their boat. The crew were airlifted by helicopter of the Italian Guardia Costiera. Loki was a total loss on the rocks near Palermo, fortunately with no loss of life.

One emergency rudder that has the best chance of working is one that is in a cassette and can be hung on pre-fitted pintles on the transom. Having it in a cassette allows a better chance of hanging it in bad weather. Once that is in place the blade can be lowered into the water as necessary. It is not a fool-proof solution but it is the best that I have come across.

Your boats, your lives, your choice...

So who are you? What are you? Your profile says nothing but you say a lot. How do we know that your advice is reliable?

 

[VO5]

All well found sailing vessels ought to carry an emergency tiller that can be fitted to the rudder shaft from above deck by removing a cover for the shaft square. I have experienced steering failure in mid ocean and used it.

However, the loss of a rudder is an other matter altogether.

The solution is to use a Seabrake drogue (because it tracks straight and does not spin) towed from the stern, and the tow line split in two to make a Y brace. This Y brace is normally rigged by looping ready prepared bights over the stern cleats.
But in practice the bights are not looped over the sterncleats and instead two lines are led from them to winches.

Then it is easy to steer by easing on one and cranking on the other, and vice versa.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

So who are you? What are you? Your profile says nothing but you say a lot. How do we know that your advice is reliable?

I am not offering any advice, only an opinion.

An opinion that is only based on fifteen years doing scrutineering before the annual Rolex Middlesea Race held towards the end of October. It is a 600+ nautical mile race that starts from Malta, goes North past Sicily, Round Stromboli, West towards Palermo, South past Favignana towards Pantalleria, round Lampedusa and finishing in Malta It is arguably one of the toughest 600-mile Rolex races usually offering everything from dead calm to F8-9. Certainly widely acknowledged as the most spectacular.

But that is beside the point as who I am or what I do is irrelevant. As I have already pointed out, "Your boat, your lives, your choice..."


p.s. Some pictures here if you're interested: http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2015/10/18/photos-rolex-middle-sea-race-2015/ or else Google RMSR2015

 

[VO5]

So who are you? What are you? Your profile says nothing but you say a lot. How do we know that your advice is reliable?

Humm...

That is what the caterpillar sitting on a mushroom smoking a Hookah Pipe said to Alice...

Look what happened to him...in no time at all he turned into a butterfly....

 

[William_H]

Those of us with transom mounted swing rudder in trailer sailer know jus how aweful steering can be if the rudder balde is not swung down and fully forward. The loads are huge as soon as you try to turn the boat. The tip of the rudder having most leverage against you is the deepest.
I know we her in oz have rowed surf boats and also dragon boats all using a steering oar. But they are steered by athletes. It would be a huge problem to a larger sailing boat.
You need a pintle of some sort as low as possible on the transom and a blade relatively short front to back but large enough in area so deep and close to the pintle line. This will be much easier to turn with smaller leverage but will exhibit huge sideways forces at the bottom pintle.
I would suggest that a pintle be fitted near the bottom of a transom or as low as possible. I would suggest on this a pin that extends as high a spossible so that an emergency rudder pintle can be easily attached (threade on) from above while in constant motion. (sorry if I get pintles and gudgeons confused.) The blade narrow chord and deep, needs then to have a tiller attached and have of course a top pintle.
Just how much area you need is an open question. Motor boats and big ships seem to manage with rleatively small rudder area. However on a sail boat especially one with a fin keel the rudder acts also as a keel and a vital part of the lateral resistance thing. So a smaller emergency rudder may be ok for straight forward smooth sailing but at those times when you are battling with weather helm (from heeling) or just trying to deal with large waves especially if folowing then you would want all the stregth and steering power you can get.
As already said on the question of transom mounted rudders the possibility of hitting something and the rudder being so strong that it tears out the pintles this can be a real concern as holes in the bottom of the transom can mean a really bad water leak. One of my sailing concerns though I have donme nothing about it. olewill

 

[Seajet]

As I mentioned earlier, I have tried a spi pole / bunktop setup and while I agree about large loads, I still think this has a lot going for it.

I have actually tried a sea anchor drogue streamed astern of a Centaur, tiller lashed, with a stiff ( say F5+/- ) following breeze; the drogue was taken to the sheet winches either side, and yes we could steer reasonably, as long as the destination was say 25 degress either side of dead downwind, and the loads on the winch lines were shocking - there is always the question of how long a drogue will take this, unless one is lucky enough to have the space to stow a series drogue like VO5.

If a rudder disatster happened out in clear water, a drogue with lines to each quarter would be good for getting time to take stock - pardon the pun !

But for steering to make a harbour entrance I think I'd go for the spi / bunktop rudder and steering by the sails; that's with my boat.

NB OleWill and I have broadly similar boats with transom hung rudders hemispheres apart and we've both decided flotsam impacting on the rudder & ripping out the transom or at least chunks of it is a genuine concern.

So watertight compartments with this in mind seem at least as essential as a means of steering if one is still afloat...

 

[charles_reed]

If a boat loses its rudder how hard would it be to deploy a steering oar as a substitute.? Many modern yachts have spade rudders, so if lost it would be difficult to hang a replacement over the stern? Or am I incorrect in that?

Perhaps a blade attached to the spin pole would do? How big a blade, and how long a pole would be needed in relation to the boat?

Tried an oar, when my rudder blade broke on the Dovey bar.

Found them totally inadequate and broke 3. Going to windward no difficulty in setting course by sheet-tension - reaching and downwind impossible - the "best" solution was two big drogues on the quarters.

It will, of course, vary from boat to boat.

 

[charles_reed]

Do you all have an emergency tiller which fits the top if the rudder shaft?

Have a "proper" tiller - none of your go-faster twin wheels.

 

[charles_reed]

Interestingly only a couple of people who've experienced the situation - even scrutineering for the Middle Sea Race only make for an opinion ;-)

Drogues do work - even if getting into harbour needs a lifeboat-pluck - but they're only good under very controlled sailplans and seastates below Bf6. BTW when I was in Malta, the Loki crew had a reputation for headlong abandon..

I would advise anyone to actively prepare for the situation - it's regrettably common and results in loss of the boat in 60% of cases.

 

[bbg]

If you think you may need one I suggest something solid is prepared, not a vague idea involving bunk boards. With a transom it would be easy to have pintles already fitted and a rudder to suit.

I agree. I am somewhat bemused by people spending a great deal of time and effort designing what is effectively a "bodge" steering system.

I also agree about it being difficult to put a rudder in place in a heavy sea. I have never understood why the lower gudgeon can't be significantly longer than the upper, so you can get one in place then align the other. Or drill a small hole in the end of the gudgeon to accept a light line that can be lowered through the pintle and pulled, to help guide the gudgeon in.

The final alternative would be to fit a cassette on the steering system. That could be fitted in place without a rudder, then the rudder lowered in through the cassette.

 

[bbg]

One emergency rudder that has the best chance of working is one that is in a cassette and can be hung on pre-fitted pintles on the transom. Having it in a cassette allows a better chance of hanging it in bad weather. Once that is in place the blade can be lowered into the water as necessary. It is not a fool-proof solution but it is the best that I have come across.

Just saw this, and I agree with it. On a sugar-scoop stern it might be necessary to get a strong bracket fabricated to hold the upper pintle above the lower pintle.

 

[rogerthebodger]

This is how I designed my self steering gear auxiliary rudder/ emergency rudder.

Top of rudder shaft with attachment for tiller.

Lower rudder swivel for auxiliary rudder

Rudder lift hinge with shear pin.

Test fitting of rudder frame before cladding with stainless steel

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

.... BTW when I was in Malta, the Loki crew had a reputation for headlong abandon..

I would advise anyone to actively prepare for the situation - it's regrettably common and results in loss of the boat in 60% of cases.

Very true! The level of their arrogance was unbelievable, as were their puerile attempts to wriggle out of responsibility for the situation by trying to shift the blame elsewhere. Fortunately for them Loki was a high-profile client for their insurers and the claim was settled in what must have been record time!

Totally agree with your last sentence; many seem to 'think' along the lines of "It'll never happen to me". As with advertising in business it is not a question of "Can I afford to have it?" but rather "Can I afford NOT to have it?"

Once again, this is just my opinion.


BTW, does this photo look familiar or am I confusing you with someone else?

 

[Fantasie 19]

Do you all have an emergency tiller which fits the top if the rudder shaft?

Isn't that what molegrips are for?

 

[Roberto]

After having seen this video

as that type of drogue might come handy in other circumstances, I decided to give it a try, I bought a roll of webbing, after about 25438 stitches

and 6546753865 stitches later

I will report after testing

 

[fisherman]

Extra master Graham Dalton proposes if a ship has lost steering to let it tow you.