Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she's a girlie?

Re: The Armchair Critics Challenge...

ok let's look at it at a local point, round the cans racing, in a stripped out 26 footer pureley designed for racing, compared to a dehler 34, the skipper has read a weather report the day before, whereas on the 26" the skipper just turned up and guesstimated the wind, which one is going to win in a heavy wind? the dehler most likely, but then the skipper of the 26" claims the dehler cheated coz he looked at the weather forecast the day before, but if the skipper of the 26" claimed the skipper of the dehler cheated because he looked at a weather forecast, he'd get laughed out of the bar! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
waht's the problem, is it because the people with the larger yachts out there feel a little disheartened because there ARE bigger yachts than yours, and people who can afford to back them up with huge amounts of dosh? or is it just the fact that she's done something that most people can only dream of doing!
or even more, is it the fact that you see women in the sailing world as a threat, and that your manly might and strength when your pulling in a sheet as hard as you can is being matched by a girl? sounds to me like some people are scared!
i'm ojnly 17 and would aspire to achieve what she has done already, now come on sort yourselfs out and think what it would have been like, stick you in a F10 gale and see how you like it, knowing that if you trip up.... bye bye life!


yeh and by the way, some of you people who think that you can just call out a lifeboat or a helicopter or something with your piddly little icom m31,think again, where she was, there is no saefty net, nothing to fall back on!

sorry rant over! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: discussion should be possible

May I just clarify.

I am in awe of Ellen McArther, what she has achieved thus far, her notoriety, personality and sailing skills. I was just offering an alternative, you know, a discussion about what Teamellen achieved.

She deserves the record, she deserves all the adoration. For the facts speak for themselves, the fastest single handed yacht to sail around the world. And a British record to boot, it does not get better.

Yesterday a question was raised regarding how much support should this kind of endeavour be allowed. Where should the line be drawn? How alone is alone?

People have been using similes from F1, lets not forget, in order to keep F1 available to less well off teams and keep some driving skill many inventions are banned at the beginning of each season, such as traction control, wide tyres, super slick compounds etc.

I guess what I am saying is, in todays world is it ok to lump all the yachts and skippers together under the same banner.

For example

Fastest yacht around the world - Overall (crewed, single, whatever)
Fastest single handed multi - Full support
Fastest single handed multi - Alone
etc.

When RKJ arrived home, he showed that anyone could achieve with determination what they wanted. When Ellen arrived home she showed (sorry) that with massive budgets anyone can achieve what they wanted. She has moved the record to a league that 99.99% of her fans could never dream of achieving.

This does not make her record false, or make her a cheat, far from it. I was just attempting, however badly, that in some ways the real single handers who had no support teams should be celebrated for a different achievement.
 
Re: Boys, Girls and Dogs

if anyone has been offended by my comments then with hand on heart i sincerely appologise.
i only hope that ellen dose not get to read some of the remarks made about her because some have been quite low and as you rightly point out personal attacks are hurtfull and very wrong.
a new member i am and put in my place i have been put.
 
Re: discussion should be possible

Agree .. wish some posters would engage brain and read what you are actually saying before spouting off.
 
Re: discussion should be possible

[ QUOTE ]
May I just clarify.....

[/ QUOTE ]

No need for me, I understood it the first time. I also (partly) understnad what others are saying and in a good way trying to keep everything as pure as possible.

The problem is that recent records (not just by Ellen but also Veendee) are set by means of very professional support, ie major investments. To break such a record, you need (besides the obvious balls&skills) a darn fast boat... and therefore you need a big sponsor... sonspors want exposure.... on board cams, daily report from skipper and all the drama you can think of.....

So, perhaps it is wise as you sugested to add another league or group to the records - a split in amateurs and professionals.

Right now a Dutch guy is sailing the world single handed (yes he's got a sort of shoreteam too....). He's doing that in a steel, ordinairy monohull and trying to set the dutch record (220 days). Good for him and he's outdone me in many factors.... but to say it's as exciting as Ellen's trip.... nahhhh. But it's pure, that's for sure.....

See www.oceanstocross.com
 
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?

I think she triped over her own lip whinging on a TV interview. Politically naive, seems to have no appreciation for the honour given but has not the 'balls' to refuse it. Gives the impression she was entitled to it. Sad.
 
Re: discussion should be possible

I am in awe of Ellen McArther, what she has achieved thus far, her notoriety, personality and sailing skills. I was just offering an alternative, you know, a discussion about what Teamellen achieved.

I agree with that too ShipsWoofy but those you are trying to say that to will not read it.

You are already a very naughty Woofy in the eyes of the hysterical so sorry, all their responses will be based upon all the naughty things they imagine you are saying, rather than upon what you write. Sort of like the "Someone got bitten by a dog so all dogs bite type" lathering.

But I must add it seems to me that you are a very sensible Woofy in the eyes of your fellow creatures, even to us Cats /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John
 
Re: discussion should be possible

Its an interesting question that Woofy has raised, though I am at a loss as to the relevance of replies mentioning what these days is called sexuality.

Robin went round the world without sponsorship. Not for want of trying or any sense of purity - he simply couldnt get it. And his boat wasnt home built, it was built by Indian boatbuilders at Colaba workshops. But it was a courageous first using equipment we would now regard as inadequate.

Ellen has been much more professional in a more professional era. For her to repeat what RNJ had done and as a result to fail to beat the record would be as pointless as entering a Grand Prix in an Austin 7. How far would one carry such an exercise. Would the boat have to be of an effectively obsolete material - wood? No GPS? No freeze dried food? No radio? Cotton clothes and leather deck shoes? Cotton sails?

Seems to me she has worked really hard and achieved a result. Good for her. No comparsions with past heroes are relevant
 
Is it spin. Or is it me?

The message comes across from time to time like this:

"No-one here is knocking Ellen. We just want to discuss why she should be more of a heroine than Knox-Johnston and whether she deserves credit when she has had all this support and technology etc. etc."

I'd buy less spin from some posters on this topic.... and I'm going to set a new record too: Round Britain without using binoculars.
 
Re: discussion should be possible

This does not make her record false, or make her a cheat, far from it. I was just attempting, however badly, that in some ways the real single handers who had no support teams should be celebrated for a different achievement.


Very true, who has heard of Robin Davie.

Born in Cornwall did 3 successive BOC's, rounded the Horn one race UNDER JURY RIG, another one sailed 2000 mile across the Atlantic to South Africa without a RUDDER. He slept for 20 minutes at a time, we supplied him a clockwork RS timer for this purpose. To get money to race he worked for Irag or Iran during there war manning a salvage tug, putting out tanker fires and towing them in. Three weeks back from his last trip the tug was hit by an Exocete.

Okay he broke no record, got no medal from the PM, and is probably unknown to most !! but was he less of a seaman?.

Wander what will be said on the forum when this unknown person, on a multihull with areo foil rig, controlled from the race centre via satalite link has reduced the record by 10 days !!

Brian
 
not british

ummm, interestingly, not v diffferent regardless of EM nationality? i do think the rantings here have concentrated upon the worthiness (get DOWN everyone!) and that occassional whackings of/by varous rubgdy teams have shown a not-too partisan view? imho

i remain slightly (bordering on a lot) in awe of Orange
 
Re: It comes and goes

Things that said every day in banter or even a quick flare up between friends or collegues look more portentious in writing.

This is a place to air differences, share info, get it off your chest, praise, moan or simply speculate.

I sometimes wish some of the opinions were based on fact rather than feeling but hey thats life. This would be a duller place if we all agreed and were lovely to each other.
 
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?

But isn't it rather strange that not one of her peers (ie, RTW single handers, Vendee or whatever else) have even come close to questioning her achievement.

They have had nothing but praise. Even the chap who did it “without” outside help.

And how do you measure outside help. The fact that he used weather information compiled by an anonymous forecaster, how is that so different to Ellen's that was supplied by a known forecaster? Do we know for sure that Commanders called the shots or did they just give input to her decisions?

W
 
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?

A more valid perspective concerning her performance compared with RKJ is that her solo trip was 3 days faster than RKJ's fully crewed record on Enza where he had Peter Blake (arguably the greatest sailor ever) as co-skipper.

John
 
Re: discussion should be possible

Well the French think she is great and they aren't British(!) AND it was a French record she broke. Only Brits will continually search for reasons to knock success, maybe she should have 'failed' by 5 minutes to break the record, then everone would give her support.
 
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?

<A more valid perspective concerning her performance compared with RKJ is that her solo trip was 3 days faster than RKJ's fully crewed record>

Now that really is a can of worms I personally would avoid opening because you are arguably leaving yourself open to the logical conclusion that it's technological advances that enable records to be broken. Have you been following the progress of Orange 2? She is fully crewed and is breaking Enza's record too, by a huge margin. A staggering 30-35 knots of boatspeed off Australia is the latest!
 
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?

I was thinking about the issue of outside assistance, and remembered my own hero Clare Francis. Her account of the '76 OSTAR mentions that when her self steering failed, she spoke to her partner in the UK by radio (I think he had to extracted from the local pub), and that whilst she got no direct weather info from her sponsors crossing the Atlantic on the QE2, their extra-stern warnings to stay clipped on and take extra care led her to believe (correctly) that more bad weather was imminent.

Not "mission control" in any way, but not absolutely unaided either.
 
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