Peppermint
New member
Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?
Several women I know think so.
Several women I know think so.
Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she's a girlie?
- Thread starter Peppermint
- Start date
PeterStone
New member
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?
Interesting thought and probably true to some extent but on the other hand you have to take the rough with the smooth. I suspect that some of the adulation is attributable to her being the fairer, physically weaker sex, triumphing in a hostile, hitherto male domain.
Interesting thought and probably true to some extent but on the other hand you have to take the rough with the smooth. I suspect that some of the adulation is attributable to her being the fairer, physically weaker sex, triumphing in a hostile, hitherto male domain.
Sybarite
Well-known member
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?
Apart from a few mindless comments, I don't think she is getting stick on this forum. What she is getting is what seems to be a typical English thing of pooh-poohing achievers and damning by faint praise.
I believe that this mood is encouraged and exploited by the English (gutter) tabloid press which is the most hypocritical on Earth.
What have we seen about her recently on this forum ? -:
People complaining about her talking about having been pushed to the limit of her reserves; (well she was wasn't she? )
that she is a "lez"... (This doesn't merit a response.)
that she has zero personality (She has a delightful character but one that is ingenuous, absent of guile and without sophistication. Thank God. I don't know her personally but I know people who do and they confirm this. It also comes over very clearly on interviews on French TV where she has undiluted and un-backbiting support and admiration).
She is an achiever and has done so in a man's world on level terms with contemporary competition. Comparisons with previous sailing exploits are vacuous; currently she is in the leading group if not the best.
John
Apart from a few mindless comments, I don't think she is getting stick on this forum. What she is getting is what seems to be a typical English thing of pooh-poohing achievers and damning by faint praise.
I believe that this mood is encouraged and exploited by the English (gutter) tabloid press which is the most hypocritical on Earth.
What have we seen about her recently on this forum ? -:
People complaining about her talking about having been pushed to the limit of her reserves; (well she was wasn't she? )
that she is a "lez"... (This doesn't merit a response.)
that she has zero personality (She has a delightful character but one that is ingenuous, absent of guile and without sophistication. Thank God. I don't know her personally but I know people who do and they confirm this. It also comes over very clearly on interviews on French TV where she has undiluted and un-backbiting support and admiration).
She is an achiever and has done so in a man's world on level terms with contemporary competition. Comparisons with previous sailing exploits are vacuous; currently she is in the leading group if not the best.
John
anglo_saxon
New member
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?
mike golding bad threads..............zero
ellen macarther bad threads............thre hundred thousand and two
no she dosn`t get stick from this forum!!
mike golding bad threads..............zero
ellen macarther bad threads............thre hundred thousand and two
no she dosn`t get stick from this forum!!
ShipsWoofy
New member
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?
Are people not allowed to question the validity of 'Mission Control' on a Round the world 'ALONE' record?
This forum is unbelievable.
Yet again, people see what they want to see. Lets summarise.
No one has had a pop at Ellen, we all think she is a beautiful heterosexual brave and determined sailor.
Some are questioning the position of this record, is it better than Robin Knox Johnson's around alone in a boat he built himself, lets refresh....
And Team Ellen who generated millions to compete in their home build yacht B&Q Castorama.
Can people really not see the question?
Are people not allowed to question the validity of 'Mission Control' on a Round the world 'ALONE' record?
This forum is unbelievable.
Yet again, people see what they want to see. Lets summarise.
No one has had a pop at Ellen, we all think she is a beautiful heterosexual brave and determined sailor.
Some are questioning the position of this record, is it better than Robin Knox Johnson's around alone in a boat he built himself, lets refresh....
And Team Ellen who generated millions to compete in their home build yacht B&Q Castorama.
Can people really not see the question?
anglo_saxon
New member
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?
oh i see. so if ellen had built her own boat out of wood and then tried to beat mr frenchy`s record, then we could have cut her some slack.
i get it now, silly me.
oh i see. so if ellen had built her own boat out of wood and then tried to beat mr frenchy`s record, then we could have cut her some slack.
i get it now, silly me.
nicho
Well-known member
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?
I think some of the problem was summed up by a newspaper article I read, which basically said she was indeed a brilliant sailor and a "heroine", but the writer found it difficult to "warm" to her. I sort of feel the same way.
I think some of the problem was summed up by a newspaper article I read, which basically said she was indeed a brilliant sailor and a "heroine", but the writer found it difficult to "warm" to her. I sort of feel the same way.
StellaGirl
New member
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?
The thing that bothers me is the people that bitch about her moaning and say she cries all the time etc. To me they are just ignorant and I would like to see them do it, but then people that say things like that are just ignorant.
Peoples opinion is based on what they see/read in the press and there isnt much that you can do about that.
The thing that bothers me is the people that bitch about her moaning and say she cries all the time etc. To me they are just ignorant and I would like to see them do it, but then people that say things like that are just ignorant.
Peoples opinion is based on what they see/read in the press and there isnt much that you can do about that.
Peppermint
New member
Re: One of your photographed boats is in Shamrock Quay
Can you guess which one?
Can you guess which one?
anglo_saxon
New member
Re: One of your photographed boats is in Shamrock Quay
go for it stellagirl dont hold back, im right behind you and no my legs arn`t shaking.
go for it stellagirl dont hold back, im right behind you and no my legs arn`t shaking.
P57
New member
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?
I think it's very difficult to draw any parallel between, on the one hand, Chichester, Rose and Knox-Johnston and, on the other, Joyon, Ellen and whoever comes next. The game has changed - there aren't many things left that anyone can be "first", so the only achievement left is to be "fastest". The cost of being fastest is immense, for only incremental gains in time, so I have no issues with the (amazing) Team Ellen fundraising effort, and in any case Chichester had commercial sponsorship (Daily Telegraph??) and Knox-Johnston tried desperately, according to his book, to raise funding to build a completely different (and potentially MUCH faster) boat for the Golden Globe (so not much has changed).
The issue where I think you do have a point is in the concept of "unsupported" - no-one claims that Ellen would be entitled to an "unsupported" record as she had external weather routing. Joyon didn't - he couldn't afford it - and he may well be entitled to claim that he still has an "unsupported" solo record - he even painted his own boat, according to the stories.
Maybe its time for the WSSRC to recognise two classes for some of the solo records, one for unsupported (no weather routing or advice on fixing problems with the boat) and one "open" record???
By the way, on the original subject, its got nothing to do, as far as I can see, with her being a girl, or moaning or anything else.
I think it's very difficult to draw any parallel between, on the one hand, Chichester, Rose and Knox-Johnston and, on the other, Joyon, Ellen and whoever comes next. The game has changed - there aren't many things left that anyone can be "first", so the only achievement left is to be "fastest". The cost of being fastest is immense, for only incremental gains in time, so I have no issues with the (amazing) Team Ellen fundraising effort, and in any case Chichester had commercial sponsorship (Daily Telegraph??) and Knox-Johnston tried desperately, according to his book, to raise funding to build a completely different (and potentially MUCH faster) boat for the Golden Globe (so not much has changed).
The issue where I think you do have a point is in the concept of "unsupported" - no-one claims that Ellen would be entitled to an "unsupported" record as she had external weather routing. Joyon didn't - he couldn't afford it - and he may well be entitled to claim that he still has an "unsupported" solo record - he even painted his own boat, according to the stories.
Maybe its time for the WSSRC to recognise two classes for some of the solo records, one for unsupported (no weather routing or advice on fixing problems with the boat) and one "open" record???
By the way, on the original subject, its got nothing to do, as far as I can see, with her being a girl, or moaning or anything else.
anglo_saxon
New member
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?
why not go a step further and have no gps just a sextant and go back to one hull. (wooden of course)
why not go a step further and have no gps just a sextant and go back to one hull. (wooden of course)
ShipsWoofy
New member
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?
Why are we not allowed to discuss this subject objectively?
Why are we not allowed to discuss this subject objectively?
anglo_saxon
New member
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?
i thought we were.
why are some people getting put out because some of us are fighting in ellens corner.
personaly ive had enough of people knocking her.
she`s a girllie and she has shown us men how to do it and we cant handle that.
pick on mike for a change. oooh no cant do that, not the done thing.......
i thought we were.
why are some people getting put out because some of us are fighting in ellens corner.
personaly ive had enough of people knocking her.
she`s a girllie and she has shown us men how to do it and we cant handle that.
pick on mike for a change. oooh no cant do that, not the done thing.......
BobOwen
New member
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?
[ QUOTE ]
Are people not allowed to question the validity of 'Mission Control' on a Round the world 'ALONE' record?
[/ QUOTE ]
It would seem so on this forum. There seem to be a number of very sour characters who feel they can shout down an opinion other than their own and justify it with a few cliches. Its obvious some people are replying to posts they haven't actually read. Witness the above.
In the last month or so on this forum, I have seen a new poster treated appallingly by a regular poster, a number of innocent posts treated like they had introduced cyber herpies and general bad tempered and ill considered responses.
As a contributor and regular on a number of forums, I feel this one is becoming one of the nastiest around. The particular type of ranting here is becoming not just unpleasant, but disturbing similar to the attitude of the "Thought Police" of some states.
A shame.
/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Are people not allowed to question the validity of 'Mission Control' on a Round the world 'ALONE' record?
[/ QUOTE ]
It would seem so on this forum. There seem to be a number of very sour characters who feel they can shout down an opinion other than their own and justify it with a few cliches. Its obvious some people are replying to posts they haven't actually read. Witness the above.
In the last month or so on this forum, I have seen a new poster treated appallingly by a regular poster, a number of innocent posts treated like they had introduced cyber herpies and general bad tempered and ill considered responses.
As a contributor and regular on a number of forums, I feel this one is becoming one of the nastiest around. The particular type of ranting here is becoming not just unpleasant, but disturbing similar to the attitude of the "Thought Police" of some states.
A shame.
/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
ShipsWoofy
New member
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?
No one is knocking Ellen. Read my post above. People are questioning the validity of around 'ALONE' when she clearly had as much support as early cosmonauts.
**disclaimer** I could not even dream of doing what Ellen has in her so far short career. ok. I have full respect for the endurance, determination, grit, skill that she has shown to beat the record.**
But, on reflection, I truly believe the record set by Joyton had more going for it, as he really was 'ALONE'. There is a good chance Ellen would have still broken the record had she not had her mission control. It is a shame we shall never know.
I wish people would understand, no one, is knocking the person, they are questioning what level of support this particular endurance should have.
Are you in Love with Ellen or something?
No one is knocking Ellen. Read my post above. People are questioning the validity of around 'ALONE' when she clearly had as much support as early cosmonauts.
**disclaimer** I could not even dream of doing what Ellen has in her so far short career. ok. I have full respect for the endurance, determination, grit, skill that she has shown to beat the record.**
But, on reflection, I truly believe the record set by Joyton had more going for it, as he really was 'ALONE'. There is a good chance Ellen would have still broken the record had she not had her mission control. It is a shame we shall never know.
I wish people would understand, no one, is knocking the person, they are questioning what level of support this particular endurance should have.
Are you in Love with Ellen or something?
jimi
Well-known member
Re: Ellen. Is she getting stick cos she\'s a girlie?
I do'nt think so .. and I do'nt think she is "getting stick". I just wish those that leap in and defend or criticise would actually read what is being said.
1) Moans .. her moans were very public, I'd sack the PR man if I were her. Most others RTW Chichester probably felt the same but were saved from displaying it publicly by the absence of communications equipment. All these sentiments are expressed.
2)Cheat .. I used this in a post title as a quote from a non sailor in the pub regarding external help with weatrher routeing. It was within the "rules".
3)Debate .. will happen when the boundaries of the contest & record are unclear. Undoubtedly several classes of RTW sailing records will emerge.
4) Ellen's personality .. amazing .. pity the thought police do'nt share some of her attributes
5)Anger, affront and personal attacks ... just grow up you lot!
I do'nt think so .. and I do'nt think she is "getting stick". I just wish those that leap in and defend or criticise would actually read what is being said.
1) Moans .. her moans were very public, I'd sack the PR man if I were her. Most others RTW Chichester probably felt the same but were saved from displaying it publicly by the absence of communications equipment. All these sentiments are expressed.
2)Cheat .. I used this in a post title as a quote from a non sailor in the pub regarding external help with weatrher routeing. It was within the "rules".
3)Debate .. will happen when the boundaries of the contest & record are unclear. Undoubtedly several classes of RTW sailing records will emerge.
4) Ellen's personality .. amazing .. pity the thought police do'nt share some of her attributes
5)Anger, affront and personal attacks ... just grow up you lot!
claymore
Well-known member
Boys, Girls and Dogs
This is getting a little heated, now come on play nicely...
She did really well - probably better than any of us could have - and most have admitted we wouldn't be seen dead bashing around the globe living off dehydrated freeze dried nonsense.
Of course she has her detractors - thats life isn't it?
Perhaps as sailors we should at least have a better inkling than most of the trials and tribulations she has endured.
Where do you want this to stop?
This is getting a little heated, now come on play nicely...
She did really well - probably better than any of us could have - and most have admitted we wouldn't be seen dead bashing around the globe living off dehydrated freeze dried nonsense.
Of course she has her detractors - thats life isn't it?
Perhaps as sailors we should at least have a better inkling than most of the trials and tribulations she has endured.
Where do you want this to stop?
Mahi
New member
The Armchair Critics Challenge...
Ellen did what she did under rules that anyone, yes anyone.... including those who are whinging about her now could sail under. She would have been crazy not to have taken full advantage of those rules.
This race took place in a different era, there is no comparison to R.Knox-J's achievement. That is in a league of its own, as was the crossing of the Atlantic by Columbus. Each of these people, and many others like them have something in common, they push out frontiers.
In another 10, 50 years maybe, technology will bring new surprises and no doubt there will be armchair critics too. I’m sure that if the microphone was on RK-J and Columbus each hour of their voyages that there would have been plenty of complaining and whinging too. Heroes usually look more heroic when we don’t see the details.
Are any of the armchair critics out there capable of launching a challenge - under the same rules? I doubt many would be capable of even getting the challenge to the starting line, let alone bringing a vessel around the World in record time.
Perhaps it is because I have spent so much time at sea in all conditions possible, that Ellen has my respect.
Perhaps it is time for a new challenge...The Armchair Critics Challenge - fastest around the World in your armchair - non- stop - and microphone attached to catch all those wonderful moments of human endeavour. External support ok but only one competitor per armchair - further rules may apply.........
Ellen did what she did under rules that anyone, yes anyone.... including those who are whinging about her now could sail under. She would have been crazy not to have taken full advantage of those rules.
This race took place in a different era, there is no comparison to R.Knox-J's achievement. That is in a league of its own, as was the crossing of the Atlantic by Columbus. Each of these people, and many others like them have something in common, they push out frontiers.
In another 10, 50 years maybe, technology will bring new surprises and no doubt there will be armchair critics too. I’m sure that if the microphone was on RK-J and Columbus each hour of their voyages that there would have been plenty of complaining and whinging too. Heroes usually look more heroic when we don’t see the details.
Are any of the armchair critics out there capable of launching a challenge - under the same rules? I doubt many would be capable of even getting the challenge to the starting line, let alone bringing a vessel around the World in record time.
Perhaps it is because I have spent so much time at sea in all conditions possible, that Ellen has my respect.
Perhaps it is time for a new challenge...The Armchair Critics Challenge - fastest around the World in your armchair - non- stop - and microphone attached to catch all those wonderful moments of human endeavour. External support ok but only one competitor per armchair - further rules may apply.........
Beagle
New member
Re: discussion should be possible
[ QUOTE ]
Are you in Love with Ellen or something?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif.. but she is a Goddess, so way outa my league..... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Anyway, I understand what you are trying to discuss, but can't see the reason why. Perhaps that Frenchie didn't have the same type of "help" from a shoreteam. This means that it doesn't stop him from doing it again, under the same conditions, right? Also, this is major league racing, a bit like F1 were racing with common streetcars is not an option.... in the end (anything is allowed within the rules).
Anyway, time will show how special Ellen's record is. In the meanwhile be proud.. I know I am!!! On the other hand, each and every person has the right to think she's a wuzz... and challenge her attempt. Feel free! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Rene.
[ QUOTE ]
Are you in Love with Ellen or something?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif.. but she is a Goddess, so way outa my league..... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Anyway, I understand what you are trying to discuss, but can't see the reason why. Perhaps that Frenchie didn't have the same type of "help" from a shoreteam. This means that it doesn't stop him from doing it again, under the same conditions, right? Also, this is major league racing, a bit like F1 were racing with common streetcars is not an option.... in the end (anything is allowed within the rules).
Anyway, time will show how special Ellen's record is. In the meanwhile be proud.. I know I am!!! On the other hand, each and every person has the right to think she's a wuzz... and challenge her attempt. Feel free! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Rene.