Electronics on the "cheap"?

[gshaw]

I am thinking of adding several computer driven features to the boat but as normally the case with me it is one the cheap.

The computer/PC is not a problem, nor is the keyboard (I have a nice waterproof one with built in track ball) but the big one is the monitor.

A waterproof monitor is an arm and leg to buy new and given that I want it installed in the panel behind the steering which is exposed to the elements I need it protected and as watertight as possible. I am think of building it behind a waterproof toughened glass (Lexan?) screen which would be let into the instrument panel fitted with a rubber gasket. I can mount the standard monitor behind this screen just like the screens in amusement arcade games. But what about voltage? 12vdc screens are again hard to find cheap but a 230v screen fed via an inverter would do the job or would it? Has anyone done this sort of install before?

I plan to run SeaClear software (I have all the charts scanned calibrated and checked for accuracy) and a Fishfinder software and possibly a Navtex and weather map decoder (MetoPro) plus I will have the PC functions available. I dont want to spend a fortune but still have a great facility so what ideas do you have?

G

 

[nimbusgb]

A world of pain!

Making the housing will be a major challenge and when its all done you wont be able to see the screen for all the reflections.

 

[Richard10002]

Buy a dedicated waterproof Plotter!!!

 

[mbailey]

Definitely would not put a PC on a boat - laptop maybe, but not outside. If you positively have to put it outside then take a look at the Panasonic Tough Books. Not sure how much resistance they offer to water (if any), but they are certainly rugged.

Otherwise, if you can get buy with just chart plotting then buy an iphone, waterproof casing and Navionics mapping for £15. But you get what you pay for, and there is a reason why dedicated equipment is the preferred option for most.

 

[Paul_G]

12v monitors

rather than a 12v monitor which are hard to find, how about a 12v TV with a monitor input. There are plenty of those about with prices similar to 240v versions, size for size

Paul

 

[seamaster30]

I am thinking of adding several computer driven features to the boat but as normally the case with me it is one the cheap.

I used to do this, but found out it usually cost more than doing it properly in the first place....

I would suggest a dedicated plotter as well, but if you must go your route, you need a screen with an external power supply that has a 12v output.
You can then discard the power supply and connect it direct to the boats battery.
You would still run a small risk of over voltage from the alternator damaging the screen, so you would be safer but less economical on power, to use the inverter with the original power supply.

 

[srm]

I assume you enjoy playing with electronic toys and spending hours to get them working when you want them, tracing corroded wires and connectors etc etc etc

Not what I go to sea to do, unless I am being paid of course, and even then it was not much fun. It was bad enough keeping the computer systems stable and running in a shore based ship simulator.

As said above, get a plotter if you really want this faciity. Or look for a much simpler solution like my old ex-military 'Toughbook' laptop tied down on a 25mm foam pad on the chart table where I can see it from the cockpit.

 

[fishermantwo]

If you use a dedicated plotter you will need to spend about $7000 to get a decent sized screen and still wont have all the advantages of Seaclear. I would not bother trying to fit a screen "outside". Consider fitting a 22 or 24 inch Lcd screen on the bulkhead so that its visable from the helm. Could double as the ships TV as well. Control it with handheld "mouse" as used in presentations. My gear is all 240 volts, been in use now for 8 years and still looks new.

 

[gshaw]

If you use a dedicated plotter you will need to spend about $7000 to get a decent sized screen and still wont have all the advantages of Seaclear. I would not bother trying to fit a screen "outside". Consider fitting a 22 or 24 inch Lcd screen on the bulkhead so that its visable from the helm. Could double as the ships TV as well. Control it with handheld "mouse" as used in presentations. My gear is all 240 volts, been in use now for 8 years and still looks new.

Interesting points of view. Yes I could spend $£5k+ on kit but I DON'T WANT TO. I see no problem in installing a computer in a dry area of the cuddy and running out control cables or even going wireless. The keyboard I have can be put in a dish washer without problems so its ok outside in the wet. It has a built in track ball and is wireless. In front of the helm is a flat area of fiberglass big enough to take a 15" monitor let into the surface but I was thinking of cutting a 16" hole in this and installing a float panel of non reflective laminate glass plate (which we use for train information consoles on-board trains) and mounting the computer LCD screen behind this, the screen is thus protected from water and with a back heater system no condensation problems. The outer glass screen would be sealed all round with a rubber gasket and the computer and monitor would be internal in the cuddy away from water.

I can rubber mount the HDD (solid state) and chassis with no problem. If I can't easy find a 12v 15" screen I will run a true sine wave soft start inverter as the monitor only draws 1.4A max (15" screens are very cheap I can get them for £20 each).

I will build a dummy screen enclosure at the weekend to see what it is like before fitting to the boat and try the viability etc of the glass panel.

I agree that to build a external freestanding monitor is crazy but building a panel into the flat area and having the computer CPU etc out of harms way should work fine.

Thanks to all for their input.

 

[cozzykim]

Interesting points of view. Yes I could spend $£5k+ on kit but I DON'T WANT TO. I see no problem in installing a computer in a dry area of the cuddy and running out control cables or even going wireless. The keyboard I have can be put in a dish washer without problems so its ok outside in the wet. It has a built in track ball and is wireless. In front of the helm is a flat area of fiberglass big enough to take a 15" monitor let into the surface but I was thinking of cutting a 16" hole in this and installing a float panel of non reflective laminate glass plate (which we use for train information consoles on-board trains) and mounting the computer LCD screen behind this, the screen is thus protected from water and with a back heater system no condensation problems. The outer glass screen would be sealed all round with a rubber gasket and the computer and monitor would be internal in the cuddy away from water.

I can rubber mount the HDD (solid state) and chassis with no problem. If I can't easy find a 12v 15" screen I will run a true sine wave soft start inverter as the monitor only draws 1.4A max (15" screens are very cheap I can get them for £20 each).

I will build a dummy screen enclosure at the weekend to see what it is like before fitting to the boat and try the viability etc of the glass panel.

I agree that to build a external freestanding monitor is crazy but building a panel into the flat area and having the computer CPU etc out of harms way should work fine.

Thanks to all for their input.

I've been keen to egg you on to try this except that most TV/PC LCD monitors are not really bright enough to see in daylight, or are you thinking about CRT - Blimey!!

I had an old 15" ADI rotating LCD with the PSU in the base and a 12V socket on the monitor chassis.

I've also got a Relisys 17" 16:10 TV/Monitor with an external adapter, so it is possible to find them.

 

[OffScotland]

Can certainly recommend Seaclear. Was fortunate to have access to a flatbed colour scanner that would take Admiralty charts in the one go. Simple to apply NMs and rescan to keep things up-to-date. Not so easy now that I no longer have access. Have quite a collection from West Coast Scotland round to Killybegs.

 

[smartcom]

For the screen, you will find a couple of problems. First, a standard screen will not be bright enough, unless you recess it down enough to protect it from direct light - or some people have mounted one in the back of the coachroof, which works wel unless the sun is from behind. Secondly, condensation forming on the circuitry as the screen heats up and cools down. But if you want to go this route, then go to camong and caravanning stores for a 12V TV that has a PC input. A better bet is the Panasonic Toughbook WiFi screen, which is more waterproof than the spec says, has rechargeable batteries and a WiFi link to your PC, and a touch overlay.

If you want to shock mount the hard drive, I have a few sets of shock mounts for drives. These fit into a standard size disk bay and take a laptop sized hard disk, which also means lower power consumption. Drop me a message if you're interested.

For Navtex, you could look at our PC Navtex software, see www.pcnavtex.com.

 

[radarman]

Hi,

I can see a number of potential problems:

As mentioned before moisture! Unless you intend to have some background heating working all the time 24/7 then the monitor circuitry will end up very wet and despite what some people may believe LCD screens do contain quite high voltages. Moisture and high voltages don't mix.

Another potential problem is the fact that I assume you will be sighting your PC in the cabin (to keep it dry) and running your screen cable to the monitor. Careful thought would need to be given about the route for this cable if you don't want lots of interference from other electrical systems due to the length of the run.

 

[Refueler]

All screens need to ventilate as well ...

Given sunlight - even in UK - you can have difficulty seeing a plotter at times let alone a monitor.

A friend and I spent a lot of time setting up marine system based on ITX gear ... we even solved the mainboard ventilation / heat part ... but it was the screen that always failed the mark.
Some say Toughbook - OK but that's a tablet or Notebook PC and I've yet to see one that is capable of surviving what this guys suggesting.

I still argue that the route IF a brave manufacturer would take it on ... is a GPS plotter that can be programmed by user with whatever plotting PC software he wants etc. Instead of stuck with Garmin, Lowrance, Navman sorry Navstar proprietary software ... he has the unit but his own program.

No doubt someone will do it and claim it as their idea !! But you saw it here first !

 

[pappaecho]

For what its worth I bought a cheapo 19 inch LCD TV from Asda which has been nailed to the wall in the main saloon for the last 3 years, and the boat has been on mooring all winter, so gets a bit damp. No problems, and as it has a VGA interface, I cannot see that paying for an expensive "waterproof" monitor is neccessary. I have not tested this one with a PC but another 19 inch in our bedroom actually goes to Xga without problems

 

[lenseman]

Running any form of computer screen outside is suggestive that you will probably be using the computer for passage making. If this is the case than you will soon discover that you will destroy your night vision and will be a very dangerous prospect whilst at sea during a first and middle watch!

Having looked at a computer screen or radar for a few moments, it will take about 45 minutes for your eyes to become 'fully adjusted' to night vision.

 

[Sandyman]

I cannot but think all the work & cost involve in what you are considering makes the project not worth while. Would installing a decent chart plotter really be that more expensive ?

 

[fireball]

Sounds like a good project ... I've often thought about doing similar - but I don't have the same access to cheap monitors that you do!
Do let us know how you get on - pictures would be good too!

Screen brightness - not sure how you'll overcome that one ...

 

[warrenmarkus1]

I too am thinking about this route but wanted to use an old desktop, but with a 12V dc-dc converter instead of the psu.
Regarding your post, and as mentioned use a 12v TV. I have a Toshiba 15" flat screen which works on 12v dc, mounted on a pivoting arm inside the cabin. So I can use it in the cabin as a TV (not for me!!), and swing the arm round to view it from the cockpit. The plan is to replace one of the washboards with perspex, so I can close the cabin off and still use it. I too intend to use a wireless keyboard and mouse. Had the TV in place for 12months now without problems. Not had the time to sort out the pc bit - problem getting the psu to handshake with the ATX mobo. Good luck!
Forgot to mention, just spray the pcb with a conformal coating, or a spray varnish/lacquer to keep it dry

 

[PilotWolf]

Seems to work OK for the RNLI AWBs. I can't remember if they were CRT or LCD displays though.

Theirs are simply behind a perspex sheet bolted down onto a rubber gasket. The only issue other than viewing in bright light was some condensation which was overcome using the moisture absorbing packs.

As for night vision most screens can be dimmed and any nav program worth having will have a night mode/night colours option.

W.