Electronics - do you , don't you?

[SiteSurfer]

I'm intruiged. I have been thinking about the electronics on my boat (1979 Triple keel, 29ft) with a view to perhaps "upgrading" - however it's become quite hard to work out why I would need to and am beginning to think that perhaps the much discussed "joined up" systems are great for sailors doing long passages and perhaps bigger (and more expensive) boats (allthough despite size the navigation doesnt change much (depth aside)).

I have:

• Navionics running on 2 iPads (1 backup)
• NASA Clipper Speed / Depth
• NASA Clipper Wind
• Ancient Navico Tiller Pilot
• VHF (non DSC)
• Paper Charts as backup

I currently plan my trips out on the iPad, checking the tides and stream directions on there, work out my plan and write it down with bearings and distances. As I go along I cross check the iPad which is mounted under the spray hood. To engage the tiller pilot I get onto the course I want and press 'go'.

My sailing (now and for the forseeable future) is limited to coastal hopping in the Solent and perhaps a trip to France at some stage (can't take more than 2 weeks off work), I sometimes go alone but normally would have at least one crew as company. I don't have any of the above connected together and would like to consider upgrading to:

• AIS (Possibly transponder but likely recieve only)
• VHF with DSC
• Raymarine ST2000+

So.. in order to get the VHF receiving GPS for the DSC I'll need to hook up a GPS feed, to get the AIS to do anything useful - I'll need to hook that up to an antenna and the data to the iPad (via something like iNavX or iSailor) and then to drive the tiller pilot I'll need to output some form of data (assuming of course I don't do what I am already doing and simply set a heading manually and click 'go' on the wand).

With the expansion of tablets as navigation devices, and not having the luxury of tons of space on the boat (I don't have a static navigation station / chart table in the cabin), I am intruiged by real world feedback on what sailors have on their boats when faced with using a tablet as primary tool, how they hook things up and indeed whether they bother. I am looking at a small Arduino idea I have to possibly channel data but thats only at the "I wonder if I could" stage.

I think perhaps its the lack of output from the iPad that might well be the issue? Do I absolutely need a chartplotter to handle all this communication - or for my purposes am I over thinking the whole thing and falling foul of the concept that becuase other people have complicated linked up systems - its the only way to be?

 

[bitbaltic]

Driving the DSC and AP only involves getting hold of a GPS with 0813 output (e.g. an old Garmin from Ebay) and wiring it up to the AP and VHF, as it will drive both. That end of things is fairly simple and not much of a 'system'.

If you want AIS it might make sense to buy a combined AIS (receiving) VHF, then there's no need for seperate aerials and installation, keeps it simple.

If you really, really want the AIS on the ipad, that's the point at which it gets complex, because you are going to need a wifi solution of some sort (either a wifi-enabled multiplexer or a PC onboard). You could go wifi via a chartplotter but that's a more expensive solution that you don't need if you're happy with the ipad.

 

[Scillypete]

its a bit of a price but from what you have I would probably only update the VHF. You can get a Standard Horizon GX2200e at around £320 - £330 but it comes with built in GPS and AIS, if you want to link anything up later that needs a gps feed take it from the VHF. If you really want to splash out you can mount the set down below and have a remote handset station in the cockpit for a hundred quid more.

 

[GHA]

For a small boat i really don't think you *need* much more than you have, for a long time all I had in the cockpit was depth & log/speed, nearly always single handed. Recently things leapt forward with a sony xperia running navionics & openCPN talking to a raspberry Pi down below running OpenPlotter.
Having AIS in the cockpit really is fantastic. Having a plotter up there is great as well, but certainly not essential, just very easy
I;m not sure about apps for ipad , but a Raspberry Pio is a low cost , low power method of beaming data around the boat over wifi, and I'm pretty sure that more DIY approach will continue to grow.

Edit. PS, also have a sh2150VHF radio which has asi and a remote mic for the cockpit which is excellent, but draws about 0.5A so isn't turned on all the time at sea, quite often it's just the handheld.

 

[SiteSurfer]

I wasn't aware of the option to have AIS in a VHF, that warrants a closer look. Now if that exported data too...

<edit>
Ok, thats opened up an interesting and possibly very satisfying solution.
For less than the price of the component parts I could have everything I wanted just by purchasing the VHF.

Also with the ability of the VHF to output NMEA data, the option to make (or buy) a wireless repeater means that I could then show the data on the iPad.

 

[doug748]

I wasn't aware of the option to have AIS in a VHF, that warrants a closer look. Now if that exported data too...

They are the top end of the market but will get cheaper. You can also have GPS, as Scillypete has said; that is what I will be going for soon.

A cheap secondhand plotter above the companionway could read the AIS data, which is ace for singlehanding and would give you a system independent of the iPad.

 

[Appledore]

its a bit of a price but from what you have I would probably only update the VHF. You can get a Standard Horizon GX2200e at around £320 - £330 but it comes with built in GPS and AIS, if you want to link anything up later that needs a gps feed take it from the VHF.

Seconded here. I bought one last summer, and they are about £290 if you shop around. I was very impressed with the set, and it has virtually everything a small(er) yacht might want' GPS logs in within about 20 seconds, showing speed and course etc. AIS is great, allowing you to track the ships around you. Lots of stuff I've yet to use.

 

[johnalison]

You can have a perfectly good time without any electronics at all, but the one that makes the most difference is the ability to navigate without bending over a chart table, followed by an autopilot, mainly for motoring. I agree with the others: keep it simple and cheap for the time being, unless you especially enjoy playing with systems. Even my Raymarine radar/plotter and instruments are way behind what is available nowadays but any kind of overall upgrade for either of us would cost thousands.

 

[prv]

Starting from where you are, I think the AIS-integrated VHF is a no-brainer. Although be aware that doing collision avoidance on its tiny screen isn't really practical, you need to be offloading the data to something else.

Simple NMEA-outputting GPS pucks can be had for around £30 - or down to around £10 for the basic module around which you'll need to provide a case etc (I mention this option since you brought up Arduinos, which implies you're not afraid of a little soldering etc). Although since VHFs have finally started including GPS, you may not need any separate GPS at all.

Integrating the autopilot with a plotter so you can click on a point and say "go there" is nice, but far from essential. If you end up with kit that can do it, great, but I wouldn't splash out just for that. Steering to wind is perhaps slightly more use, but only slightly, and again I wouldn't go to great lengths to get it. An autopilot that just holds the current compass course is 90% there. My below-decks pilot on Ariam has to be connected to the Seatalk network in order to control it, so I get all this integration "for free", but when I upgraded to an ST2000 tillerpilot on Kindred Spirit I didn't bother wiring up the data lines at all.

Pete

 

[SiteSurfer]

Agreed, I'm content with what I have (apart from the non DSC radio) and to install that would mean a seperate/integrated GPS feed for the DSC, I have no navigation issues whatsoever with my current setup - but was curious about what was deemed essential, turns out one purchase woud cover all aspects which I'm quite stoked about.

I have found that motoring is really boring and thats when I use the tiller pilot, unfortunately its also the point at which my boat is the heaviest on the tiller.. at least the drain on the battery is negated by its charging from the engine.

 

[SiteSurfer]

SH 2200e purchased for £280.

Thanks for the advice, thats killed so many birds with one stone. Happy Days.

 

[Heckler]

its a bit of a price but from what you have I would probably only update the VHF. You can get a Standard Horizon GX2200e at around £320 - £330 but it comes with built in GPS and AIS, if you want to link anything up later that needs a gps feed take it from the VHF. If you really want to splash out you can mount the set down below and have a remote handset station in the cockpit for a hundred quid more.

Exactly, then get a wifi repeater, join the radio to it by wire, then squirt all the data wirelessly to the Pad, he can then see all the ais and gps and speed data on his pads!
S

 

[Plum]

Exactly, then get a wifi repeater, join the radio to it by wire, then squirt all the data wirelessly to the Pad, he can then see all the ais and gps and speed data on his pads!
S

Interesting. Do you have a WiFi repeater you can recommend?

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[JumbleDuck]

Starting from where you are, I think the AIS-integrated VHF is a no-brainer. Although be aware that doing collision avoidance on its tiny screen isn't really practical, you need to be offloading the data to something else.

The Standard Horizon is only an AIS receiver. I'd suggest a Matsutec HP-33A (I have one) which is a damn good GPS, an AIS transceiver and will output whatever information you need on NMEA0183. It costs about the same as the SH thing.

 

[Minchsailor]

I changed boat a couple of years ago; it is stuffed with electronics. I sat down one day and decided what I considered to absolutely necessary and came up with 2 pieces of kit - all the others were niceties, OK to have, but not absolutely essential for the running of the boat:

echo sounder
autohelm (I do a lot of single handed sailing)

For donkeys years I sailed the Solent area with nothing more sophisticated than a battery powered radio to pick up the shipping forecasts. OK that was then, and now is now, and I would want a bit more now.

I think you are adequately equipped.

 

[prv]

The Standard Horizon is only an AIS receiver. I'd suggest a Matsutec HP-33A (I have one) which is a damn good GPS, an AIS transceiver and will output whatever information you need on NMEA0183. It costs about the same as the SH thing.

The OP wants a new radio anyway, though, so if he's happy with AIS receive (which he said in his original post) then the Standard Horizon combined unit is the way to go on a simple boat. Don't forget it's not just the AIS box itself that you save - there's also no need for any more wiring, a second antenna or splitter, or the time and effort to install any of those things.

That said, there is a good case for AIS transmission for crossing the Channel, as discussed in a thread a couple of months ago that included something like "in order to participate in traffic in a meaningful way, rather than being mere flotsam". I nearly said so in my answer, but we're looking at a relatively simple boat and it seemed just a step too far.

Anyway, he's gone and bought the "SH thing" now

Pete

 

[SiteSurfer]

Indeed, prv is correct - the sum of all the parts was the problem. I now will have a solution that does for me what I need and more - allthough of course it is of interest to see what other options are available.

Being able to solve 3 issues in one go is a bit of a dream solution really.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The OP wants a new radio anyway, though, so if he's happy with AIS receive (which he said in his original post) then the Standard Horizon combined unit is the way to go on a simple boat. Don't forget it's not just the AIS box itself that you save - there's also no need for any more wiring, a second antenna or splitter, or the time and effort to install any of those things.

True, but if one is installing a GPS one might as well get one which does AIS as well. That was how I saw it - other may differ, of course. When an AIS transceiver is so cheap I really can't see the point of getting a receiver.

 

[prv]

True, but if one is installing a GPS one might as well get one which does AIS as well.

But he's not installing a GPS. Just a new radio, and then perhaps some sort of NMEA-over-wifi widget.

And the difference between installing a GPS and an AIS transmitter is that for the latter you also need either a second aerial, which could be difficult on some boats (I don't know where I'd put one on mine), or a transmit-capable splitter, which are inordinately expensive (£250+?)

Pete

 

[JumbleDuck]

But he's not installing a GPS. Just a new radio, and then perhaps some sort of NMEA-over-wifi widget.

Oh yes he is (it's panto time) - the Standard Horizon thingy is a GPS, which he said he needed.

So.. in order to get the VHF receiving GPS for the DSC I'll need to hook up a GPS feed ...

The thingy is a neat idea, but it's a very limited GPS and a very crude AIS receiver. Incidentally, the HP-33A works fine as an AIS receiver and is still pretty good value in that role. I have given it a rubber duck on the stern pulpit, which in my case was easy to do as I had removed a NASA Navtex ignorer so the holes and gland were there.