Electronic Charts

[Martin_e]

I recently purchased a new colour chart plotter. I was very pleased with the plotter but totaly unsatisfied with the Chart. It is from a leading manufacturer and is over 15 years out of date. Even my old paper charts are more up dated than the April 03 update of the electronic chart. I am not talking about a depth here or a light there. I am talking about port layouts, main guest ports, depths and lights.
Has anyone else experianced this?
I am looking at changing the plotter for another chart format but am not sure which one. My crusing area is Norway, Oslo fjord, Denmark, Sweeden. But I will be going over the North Sea to visit my home land next year.
Waiting to see what the manufacturers say about the whole thing for now but I do not have much faith in their QA system or the rest of their charts now.
I would apreciate input about the big three, Navionics, C-map NT+ and Garmin Bluechart.

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[vyv_cox]

Garmin Bluechart

is excellent. The colours are good and easy to read, unlike the G-charts which did not differentiate between deep and shallow water. Waypoint input into routes is also a big improvement, saves much time compared with previous. Functionality of the 2006/2010 is superb and very easy to learn.

Once purchased, Bluecharts can be updated to latest version at lower than purchase price and I am told that the version is the latest available in every case.

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[kesey]

Martin, the types of chart you can get will very much depend on what type of plotter you have bought. For example, I have a Furuno 1650D chart plotter. Furuno make these to accept either Navionics or C-Map. The plotter is preset as it comes out of the factory to accept one or the other. One can not choose oneself which chart supplier one will use. My plotter takes Navionics, and I find the chart detail excellent and current..Navionics updated their charts on Ireland within the last 18 months or so.

What type of plotter have you and what is it set up for?

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

I have Navionics and am very happy, although it is on a memory cartridge I cannot identify, I would like to be able to do any updates or add info myself like how I jot notes on the sides of paper charts. I have a geonav plotter, so if anyone can shed any light on this I would appreciate it.

I have a large chart covering Portpatric to Falmough including east Ireland. If I could find these cartridges and a reader I would also be able to back up my data.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk/Honda_00.html>Honda Formula 4-Stroke racing</A>

 

[Martin_e]

I agree the detail is exellent but if it is 15 + years out of date and wrong. What use is it?
The plotter I have is from one of the big names in marine instruments and is new on the market it is only made for one type of chart format, not a chance for reprograming. Hope you understand I do not want to name and shame just yet. I have a choice stay with it or change to one of the others. Since the areial and cables are installed very neetly iit would make sence to stay with the same plotter manufacturer and that leaves only on other chart format.

I just wanted to see if anyone else had run into the same problems. The Norwegains know about the problem and have told the chart company a while ago but as yet their April 03 upgrade is 15 years old.

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[Martin_e]

Re: Garmin Bluechart

The Garmin 2006C is one of the ones that I will be looking at if I change. Looks like I will have to use my air miles and fly over for the Southampton BS.

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[stevebirch2002]

Re: Garmin Bluechart

I have just purchased a Garmin 2006 but found it too large for my small yacht. I also have a PC on board with SeaPro software so really a duplication. Thinking of selling. It has not even been installed and is still in the box. email: steve@albinvega.com

regards

<hr width=100% size=1>Albin Vega "Southern Comfort" V1703

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Now I just read the date on the cartridge and presumed that it must be up to date, you have me worried now, I have so far not run into problems, the bouys around here seem to be where they say they are. But what in foriegn waters, I made the choice for the large chart so I could buy fewer paper charts on passage.

I was not told this, and now am ready to box it back up and throw it back to the company. Can I get pulled up on SOLAS for having out of date electronic charts.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk/Honda_00.html>Honda Formula 4-Stroke racing</A>

 

[Martin_e]

That is an interesting point about being done. If any one should get done it should be the chart manufacturers. The ony reason I found out is because my home port was all wrong. I do not think that one would ralise untill one tries som serious navigation, gets lost or run agrond.
I am waiting to say what they all say about it before I go further. But I have little confidence in the chart company now.

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[charles_reed]

I've found the raster charts on CD, from Droggie to be good but expensive. With the exception of the Maxsea software the leisure market software using the raster charts appears to be unstable and I don't fancy chancing my life on a MS os or on a PC.

The old Navionics/Garmin charts are reasonable - I haven't yet tried the Navionics Gold, but there is unlikely to be any change (I guess) in the accuracy of the charts.

All the electronic charts suffer from the same problem - they can't be self-updated and whilst the issuers offer to sell you updated charts this is at a very considerable price, these are usually on average 3 years out of date.

Personally I would suggest to anyone to first choose their mapping system BEFORE looking at plotters.

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[Martin_e]

Thanks for the input Charles. I did do some investigation before I decided on the plotter but was horified to find the chart so out of date. Not small things either. I agree that they would seem to be some years behind but 15+ from the paper charts which are availiable digitiesed is a joke.
I must say I had never thought of relying on electronic stuff, but as one uses it more and more one only glances at the paper ones, not good but true.

Martin E.

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[MainlySteam]

Julian, I am in the process of trying to help sort out a problem for an operator in a country more around your side of the world than mine, who uses the same chart cartridge supplier as you mentioned. In the area they operate they get a build up to about a 180 meter error on the chart about 6 miles away from where the chart is pretty much accurate (if that makes sense, but the error is not constant across the chart). This error is of importance to their operations. We are in still in the process of determining whether the error is in the hydrographic database or in the cartidge supplier's database by getting them to compare with paper charts from the nations from which the original hydrographic data may have been sourced for the cartridge.

Whatever, it pays to be wary.

John

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[coco]

Try a Yeoman, it is not as flashy, but it allows you to use up to date charts and check their rev. date easily. Other advantages as well.

I dumped my plotter 1 year ago because the cartridges had many errors (probably digitizing errors) and were too expensive to update.

I am using a PC with scanned charts for planning purposes only.

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[stevebirch2002]

Hi

I have been using SeaPro for many years now. This has the ability to be used on a PC, Updates available at reasonable prices, you can Self Correct your charts, uses many different types of charts (Livechart, ARCS, BSB etc). Contact Euronav at their website:

www.euronav.co.uk

Regards STeve Birch

<hr width=100% size=1>Albin Vega "Southern Comfort" V1703

 

[ccscott49]

For Norway, C-map, they were/are made there.

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[charles_reed]

There are 3 factors

to take into consideration.

The first is the accuracy and up-to-dateness of the charts.
As the majority of electronic chart issuers use the charts of the relevant hydrographic service of the country there is little they can do about poor hydrographic offices, one that springs to mind are the Spanish. That lack of accuracy of the the paper charts will be reflected in electronic ones.

The second, especially with vector chart makers is how accurately they've digitised the information (basically how well they've put it into the database), this leads to variable range inaccuracies, which I've noted on a number of occasion on the Navionics charts.

The third is how frequently the electronic chart manufacurers up date their formats.
I would criticise most of them for leaving it too long.

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[Guest]

Re: There are 3 factors

But with some packages you can actually overlay corrections - so you can correct similar to paper versions. But it is true that many digi-charts or emaps as they are getting to be known as are out of date with updates each 6 months or more ..... but one package actually has internet / sat connection that auto updates literally weekly ...... but then you will be paying thousands for the commercial package to get that luxury. I visit many ships and like to look at the packages they use - I was a ships navigator before and was around when Transit was coming into vogue !!!! so its interesting to see the changes, but I was not impressed with the cartoon style of charts with the auto-updating commercial package !!!!

I much prefer my Seaclear with scanned charts etc. via my PC and of course it's always possible to screen-dump / edit literally any chart format available to suit !!



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

Trouble is the poor sod has

paid out on a plotter !!!!! As we both know from our group - there are many ways to get better than the average plotter !!



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

What would it really cost ?

Obselete Pentium PC notebook with reasonable HD about 4 - 6 gB, memory of 64mB and USB + CD ...... a few downloads and a freeware copy of Seaclear ....................

A GPS handheld unit and data cable to link to the serial port of the PC ......

So like me - eTrex about 110 quid, Notebook for couple hundred quid, 3 quid for bits to make the cable ...... or get a manufacturers cable with 12v as well for about 30 quid.........

Better than the average plotter.

<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

Errors ....

Navpack ...... their package showed distance from Chichester bar to St.Helens fort as near 10 nm, actual is about 6.5 nm, this is not only case with that package. BUT the chart package CMap when used in another PC chart plotting system was accurate.

So who says it's the charts ?? Remember we have 2 electronic factors here ..... the chart itself and the reader. Either can be the problem for errors.

As to out of date and Solas ....... until full ECS is accepted as replacement for paper charts - SOLAS will not penalise you at all for digital crap. They are interested in proper job charts and instruments ..... of course they will not take kindly to crass error in the electronic stuff ...... but it is NOT the Standard


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !