Electrickery upgrade ....

Baggywrinkle

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So, following on from the energy upgrade, there are the ageing Raymarine instruments on my new-to-me boat. It's all Raymarine C series with Radar, Instruments (ST60+) etc. from the same era. I'll run with it for a bit but here are the plans, as always constructive criticism welcome as well as advice and any errors.

1717782788151.png
 

westhinder

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Looks good.
By the time you’ve added all this up, you’re probably past caring, but there is a less expensive alternative to the Axiom Pro: Axiom+ and a separate RM10 keyboard.
It’s a tip I picked up on this forum and I’m happy with the result. But it’s probably marginal in the grand scheme.
 

Baggywrinkle

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Looks good.
By the time you’ve added all this up, you’re probably past caring, but there is a less expensive alternative to the Axiom Pro: Axiom+ and a separate RM10 keyboard.
It’s a tip I picked up on this forum and I’m happy with the result. But it’s probably marginal in the grand scheme.
Call me old fashioned but I want buttons .... have a friend with just a touch interface on his B&G system and I had a less than positive experience when I borrowed his boat. Would be fine down below at the chart table, but open to the elements I'm too much of a sceptic. How does yours hold up in rain and drizzle?
 

westhinder

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Call me old fashioned but I want buttons .... have a friend with just a touch interface on his B&G system and I had a less than positive experience when I borrowed his boat. Would be fine down below at the chart table, but open to the elements I'm too much of a sceptic. How does yours hold up in rain and drizzle?
My plotter sits under the sprayhood, so it stays dry. But being old fashioned too I also didn’t want to rely on a touchscreen alone, which is why I added the keyboard, giving me the same functionality as an Axiom pro. The keyboard is mounted on the side of the plotter, just like the pro version.
It is now the second season I’ve had it, and in practice I find I almost always use the keyboard. It is much easier to locate the cursor on the screen to set waypoints, or to consult information about chart features. I do use the touchscreen to zoom in or out, or to select items from a menu or a pop up screen, but all the precision work is done with the keyboard and the cursor knob. In a seaway you are never sure your finger will land precisely where you want it on the screen.
 

sawduster

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Looks good to me as an overview but there are a few small points you may or may not have ready considered.

- missing a terminator at the port cabin end of the network where you have the DY thermometer.
- you would normally only have one power source for the network so removing the second would free a space for the thermometer.
-my understanding is radar data isn't transmitted on NMEA2000 so you would have it at the chart table plotter but not the helm unless that plotter can transmit it over wifi?
- the axiom plotters have devicenet connectors as do the non Raymarine devices, you may want to represent these differently on your diagram. The SeatalkNG to devicenet connectors for these are irritatingly expensive for what they are.
- I don't think that Raymarine have introduced a SeatalkNG compatible wireless remote so the version you have is Seatalk 1 which requires an adapter.
 

geem

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Call me old fashioned but I want buttons .... have a friend with just a touch interface on his B&G system and I had a less than positive experience when I borrowed his boat. Would be fine down below at the chart table, but open to the elements I'm too much of a sceptic. How does yours hold up in rain and drizzle?
The RM10 is the button pack that you can mount separately. The axiom+ with RM10 is way cheaper than the Pro. We have the 12" Axiom + RV. Very happy with it. We haven't had any issues with the screen like on the early versions but our Axiom is under thr sprayhood. I will be adding the RM10 to the steering binnacle so I can zoom in and out, etc from the wheel
 

davidej

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So, following on from the energy upgrade, there are the ageing Raymarine instruments on my new-to-me boat. It's all Raymarine C series with Radar, Instruments (ST60+) etc. from the same era. I'll run with it for a bit but here are the plans, as always constructive criticism welcome as well as advice and any errors.

View attachment 178170
We installed a s/h C80,as we couldn’t update the charts on our garmin

Hateful crap! Practically unreadable! Not a patch on the Garmin. Now mainly rely on Navionics on the iPad. Continually wondering why we were such cheapskates!
 

Baggywrinkle

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Looks good to me as an overview but there are a few small points you may or may not have ready considered.

- missing a terminator at the port cabin end of the network where you have the DY thermometer.
- you would normally only have one power source for the network so removing the second would free a space for the thermometer.
-my understanding is radar data isn't transmitted on NMEA2000 so you would have it at the chart table plotter but not the helm unless that plotter can transmit it over wifi?
- the axiom plotters have devicenet connectors as do the non Raymarine devices, you may want to represent these differently on your diagram. The SeatalkNG to devicenet connectors for these are irritatingly expensive for what they are.
- I don't think that Raymarine have introduced a SeatalkNG compatible wireless remote so the version you have is Seatalk 1 which requires an adapter.
Yacht Devices do combined Device + Terminator, so it can replace a terminator on a system without needing any additional spurs. The devices that can do this have a "T" designation on the part no.

1717829256334.png

I have put 2 power sources in for redundancy and mitigating voltage drop ... as I intend to buy Raymarine bundles I will end up with multiple terminators, power source cables etc. .. might not need the 2 power supplies.

Absolutely correct about the radar, thanks, added the Seatalk HS Switch and cabling.

The adapter cables come with the plotters so I didn't explicitly identify them - I have now.

Also thanks for the info about the Seatalk 1 remote .... I blindly assumed current stuff was all Seatalk NG - also now corrected.

Thanks for the input (y) ... hopefully Version 2 is a bit better ...

Version 2 ....

1717835866597.png
 

Baggywrinkle

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The RM10 is the button pack that you can mount separately. The axiom+ with RM10 is way cheaper than the Pro. We have the 12" Axiom + RV. Very happy with it. We haven't had any issues with the screen like on the early versions but our Axiom is under thr sprayhood. I will be adding the RM10 to the steering binnacle so I can zoom in and out, etc from the wheel
Current prices on SVB don't show that saving, probably because I intend to buy an AIS and a Radar bundle with each plotter .... e.g.

AXIOM+ 12 / Touch / inkl. AIS700 - €4199,95 - then I need the RMK10 button pack @ €444,95, making €4644,90
whereas the AXIOM 12 PRO-S / Touch-Tasten / inkl. AIS700 bundle is €4129,95 - so it's a no brainer.

... and the radar bundles ...

AXIOM 12 Pro-S inkl. Quantum 2 - €5299,95 .... but there is currently no radar bundle with the Axiom+ 12 and adding up the individual components ... Axiom+ 12 - €2979,95, Buttons €444,95 + Quantum 2 Radar with cables .. €2499,85 making €5924,75

... another no-brainer.

I have no objection to a separate button pack, and it makes the installation more flexible. When it comes time to buy I'll obviously go with whatever works out best from whichever supplier offers the best deal.

 

geem

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Current prices on SVB don't show that saving, probably because I intend to buy an AIS and a Radar bundle with each plotter .... e.g.

AXIOM+ 12 / Touch / inkl. AIS700 - €4199,95 - then I need the RMK10 button pack @ €444,95, making €4644,90
whereas the AXIOM 12 PRO-S / Touch-Tasten / inkl. AIS700 bundle is €4129,95 - so it's a no brainer.

... and the radar bundles ...

AXIOM 12 Pro-S inkl. Quantum 2 - €5299,95 .... but there is currently no radar bundle with the Axiom+ 12 and adding up the individual components ... Axiom+ 12 - €2979,95, Buttons €444,95 + Quantum 2 Radar with cables .. €2499,85 making €5924,75

... another no-brainer.

I have no objection to a separate button pack, and it makes the installation more flexible. When it comes time to buy I'll obviously go with whatever works out best from whichever supplier offers the best deal.

We purchased, 12" Axiom, ACU400 autopilot pack plus additional control head, 2x S70s, wind transducer set, depth and speed. Also an ITC5. The cost in the USA was £1500 cheaper than the UK. We we able to import it all to the Caribbean for very little cost. We were fortunate that our 4kw radar was digital so it all interfaced easily
 

justanothersailboat

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The actual user experience of plotters/networked boat kit seems to have quite a big element of personal taste. Definitely best to try out different makes rather than buying on feature list.

I agree with Angus about not having two power feeds to the same bit of nmea2000 network's power line. It looks like it is possible to compartmentalise the power supply to an nmea2000 network using a kind of connector that passes through the signal pins and shielding but breaks the link of the power connection, but even that seems like it could invite headaches. This doesn't look to me like an installation that would really need it.
 

Fr J Hackett

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Can you quantify that? ... or is it a personal preference?
There are two sorts of preferences:
Professional motivated by what's in stock, what offers the best margin often covered by we get least or no problems with ....X...

User, It's what we have ie I am not going to say I made a mistake, sometimes being the replacement for some diabolical stuff.

Personally I wouldn't go with Garmin never having used their marine stuff but lots of other stuff for outdoor activities and there support was poor and web support clunky to non existent. I have used both Raymarine and B&G and previous to that Navico when they were a brand and have a slight preference based on user interface for B&G but nothing between them really.
 

Tranona

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Can you quantify that? ... or is it a personal preference?
There is little to choose between them in terms of functionality, but in the UK Raymarine have a reputation for poor after sales service, in part because of the changes in ownership over the last few years whereas Garmin seem to be the opposite. I have had both and experienced the differences in service - fight with Raymarine and excellent service from Garmin. Raymarine have lost a lot of OE contracts to both Garmin and B&G, but always difficult to know the reasons.
 

geem

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There is little to choose between them in terms of functionality, but in the UK Raymarine have a reputation for poor after sales service, in part because of the changes in ownership over the last few years whereas Garmin seem to be the opposite. I have had both and experienced the differences in service - fight with Raymarine and excellent service from Garmin. Raymarine have lost a lot of OE contracts to both Garmin and B&G, but always difficult to know the reasons.
I was going to do a seperate post on this and may well do so but we have a Garmin Inreach mini 2 purchased for our recent Atlantic crossing. The performance of this piece of kit was very poor. We have used the Delorme inreach purchased 10 years ago successfully over several long distance passages with minimal problems. Garmin purchased Delorme a few years ago and renamed the product as a Garmin. The new generation of Garmin equipment and the new Garmin app have proved poor compared to the old Earthmate app from the Delorme days. We had lots of issues communicating with our mini 2 on our recent passage. It want one problem. It was several. We also had problems communicating with friends also using a new mini 2 who left at the same time as us from Antigua. Both of us are very familiar with using the older Delorme kit.
We contacted Garmin to explain that we had a lot of issues. They asked for further information. We gave them further information. They then asked for dates, times and more details of the problems we had. I gave in at that. 15 days of messages! Customer services were really were quite difficult to deal with. They didn't really accept that we had a very unsatisfactory service, wouldn't offer us a token gesture of a refund on the months tariff.
I did some Internet trawling and it seems there are lots of unhappy user of the Mini 2 device so we are not alone. It will be going on ebay when we get home and we will buy Starlink for ocean passages
 

Sandy

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Can you quantify that? ... or is it a personal preference?
In my opinion the user interface is much better than Raymarine, I use both on different boats, and their implementation of NMEA 2000 is better.

The aftersales support is fantastic. From time to time I have spoken to their third line geeks, before retirement I was a member of both the RIN and IET, so have a good understanding of both navigation and electronics.
 
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