Electric Vacuum Sensor/Gauge

[prv]

Only I'm not sure there's a PGN for filter pressure!

I believe the Maretron fluid pressure sensors can be set up for filter vacuum. That suggests there is a PGN for it, though of course it’s possible they’re using something more generic.

EDIT: Just checked. PGN 130314 covers pressure values, with Pressure Source 5 indicating filter pressure.

Pete

 

[pvb]

Only I'm not sure there's a PGN for filter pressure!

I believe it's 130314 "Actual Pressure".

 

[rogerthebodger]

I believe the Maretron fluid pressure sensors can be set up for filter vacuum. That suggests there is a PGN for it, though of course it’s possible they’re using something more generic.

EDIT: Just checked. PGN 130314 covers pressure values, with Pressure Source 5 indicating filter pressure.

Pete

Maretron Fluid Pressure Monitor FPM100 US$355.50
Maretron Pressure Transducer Vacuum to 1 Bar US$179.10
(FPM100 Accessory) PT-V-0-1BAR

A bit rich for me in the southern hemisphere.

 

[prv]

A bit rich for me in the southern hemisphere.

You’ve missed the point.

Obviously Vas isn’t going to buy the Maretron sensor - he’s been making his own versions of this stuff for years.

Pete

 

[rogerthebodger]

You’ve missed the point.

Obviously Vas isn’t going to buy the Maretron sensor - he’s been making his own versions of this stuff for years.

Pete

I just made a comment "a bit rich for me" no reference to vas at all

I know that and have been following vas for years even though I don't have a NMEA2000 equipment on my boat

I've been designing and making industrial industrial monitoring and processing using microcontrollers for10's of years.

 

[prv]

I just made a comment "a bit rich for me" no reference to vas at all

Ok. It read like you thought I was suggesting people buy the Maretron device, and that you were criticising that suggestion because of the price.

If you want to list, apropos of nothing, all the random products you don’t want to buy, it might be best to start a separate thread for that.

Pete

 

[vas]

Thanks for searching for me guys, I'm currently on a beach in Crete waiting for my espresso fredo and no access to my files...

Fwiw, maretron are V good at using custom PGNs for many things even those they shouldn't. Have already helped Timo to reverse engineer a few of them re EGT some others, I'll check it out when back home and the boat!

Cheers

V

 

[rogerthebodger]

Ok. It read like you thought I was suggesting people buy the Maretron device, and that you were criticising that suggestion because of the price.

If you want to list, apropos of nothing, all the random products you don’t want to buy, it might be best to start a separate thread for that.

Pete

Pete

Maretron do some incredible kit but is too expensive for me much as I would like to buy it.

If I had some bad experience with what some kit someone posted can I not post my experience or am I not allowed to reply to anyone's post from the UK that I have a different view of experience.

You comment on the vacuum range of the sensor I posted was quite correct so I looked for the same type in a range that is more compatible.

I was asked by some one to give the cost in the UK I have been out of the UK for nearly 40 years so how would I know what how much it would cost for something I did in SA 29 years ago.

We all make errors and we technical people are always looking to new, cheaper and better ways of solving issues. L have a vacuum gauge on my fuel system like you but it cannot be seen from either steering position and I have had fuel filters block of that the engine stops so I was looking for a cost effective way of setting up an alarm that would warn me before the engine died. I have 3 tanks each with if own sediment strainer, primary fuel filter and a secondary twin filters between the lift pump and the injector. So I need a differential vacuum sensor to measure the pressure drop across the filter.

In a simpler system a simple vacuum gauge or singles pressure sensor would be OK.

It up the the OP to decide if my way is to complex or he does not have the skill but wished to buy off the shelf of to get some one else to do what the OP wants.

I do feel there is an agenda by some people to discredit me but the longer destructive criticism continuous the more confirmation I have for an agenda.

I will for now just ignore this destructive criticism and carry on trying to help anyone I can by shearing my experience and knowledge

The equipment is over $500 and to me plus duty and tax and looking at our exchange rate would be getting to 10 000.00 rand which is something like my UK
pension

That may be pocket change in the UK

I try to post in the spirit of PBO if people don't like that just ignore.

It seems to me that thinks are being read into my posts that aren't there.

When I get criticised can I not justify my comment.

Its up

 

[pandos]

It's nearly all air in the pipe to a remote vacuum gauge.

I am a little lost with the workings of a vacuum gauge in a fuel line..

having had huge issues last year with my fuel system, which I have fixed. I was advised to fit a gauge..

I actually bought one and have the pipe and connections on board but was very fearful of introducing a weakness in the system...

Having motored for 30 hours in the last week in all sorts of seas... I am satisfied that the old problems are truly gone...

What stops the air in the line ending up in the fuel system...is it bled? If the pipe is long does it need to be filled with fuel from the top?

Mine would be about 2m long... I have 8mm copper gas pipe for the job... But happy to have advice on using different materials...

 

[pvb]

What stops the air in the line ending up in the fuel system...is it bled? If the pipe is long does it need to be filled with fuel from the top?

Mine would be about 2m long... I have 8mm copper gas pipe for the job... But happy to have advice on using different materials...

The vacuum gauge is sealed, so the air in the pipe doesn't get sucked out in to the engine. There's no need to fill the pipe with diesel.

Plastic pipe is likely to be easier to route than copper pipe.

Here's a pic of the (rather grubby) fuel tank area of my old boat, showing how the vacuum gauge was connected to the fuel line.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

I also have a vacuum gauge a little distance from my primary filter but I would like a audio alarm when the gauge get to a level that restrict fuel flow.

I am looking at a differential pressure sensors connected to an arduino checking my 3 primary filters and 2 secondary filters.

Breakout Board MPXV7002DP transducer APM2.5 APM2.52 Differential Pressure sensor | eBay

The indication on the guage is not going to change so fast as to catch you by surprise under way. Simply checking it at the start of the day, or at regular intervals on passage will suffice. You could set up a column for it in your log.

 

[pandos]

The vacuum gauge is sealed, so the air in the pipe doesn't get sucked out in to the engine. There's no need to fill the pipe with diesel.

Plastic pipe is likely to be easier to route than copper pipe.

Here's a pic of the (rather grubby) fuel tank area of my old boat, showing how the vacuum gauge was connected to the fuel line.

View attachment 96800

Thanks for that. I was over thinking it.. yes plastic pipe would be easier and probably better in terms of vibrations etc.

The tee arrangement is what I had in mind. Mine will be in the line between the two filters..

As a matter of logic I presume the first filter will be the first to tend towards becoming clogged..

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Thanks for that. I was over thinking it.. yes plastic pipe would be easier and probably better in terms of vibrations etc.

The tee arrangement is what I had in mind. Mine will be in the line between the two filters..

As a matter of logic I presume the first filter will be the first to tend towards becoming clogged..

Yes, the primary filter does the donkey work and is more likely to become clogged if sediment gets stirred up in the tank. In my experience, the secondary has always been clean when routinely changed.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Yes, the primary filter does the donkey work and is more likely to become clogged if sediment gets stirred up in the tank. In my experience, the secondary has always been clean when routinely changed.

I had a blockage caused by sediment gets stirred up in the tank. and a rough passage and even changing tanks thus filters the new filter still blocked, hence why I an looking for a warning alarm of impending blockage.

 

[TernVI]

I had a blockage caused by sediment gets stirred up in the tank. and a rough passage and even changing tanks thus filters the new filter still blocked, hence why I an looking for a warning alarm of impending blockage.

You be better off putting your effort into keep the tanks clean, rather than giving yourself a few minutes warning of doom.
I know from helping a mate clean his tank, that a filter can go from new to blocked in a very short time.

On the subject of electrical warnings and filters, many car filter assemblies these days have contacts in them to warn of excess water.
Might be worth implementing in a boat?

 

[pvb]

On the subject of electrical warnings and filters, many car filter assemblies these days have contacts in them to warn of excess water.
Might be worth implementing in a boat?

Some Racor filters have that facility.

 

[rogerthebodger]

You be better off putting your effort into keep the tanks clean,

Yes but in my case not as easy at that. When my boat was being built I told my staff to clean the tank out before putting the access hatches on.

They did not do it properly The 3 tanks are steel built in to the hull and are each filled with 850 liter of diesel. I gave built a big poliching systen but still need to get into the tanks to polish the fuel. The lockdown has stopped me from doing that at the moment.

On the subject of electrical warnings and filters, many car filter assemblies these days have contacts in them to warn of excess water.
Might be worth implementing in a boat?

My toyota diesel has that included in the fuel system but and keeping water out of the fuel is a great idea as is a water sensor to indicate when a problem is pending.

I also believe that Racor also have a device that that can be added to existing filters.

 

[vas]

for the record,

Normal stock Engine Dynamic Parameters PGN127489 does have a engine fuel pressure parameter. However, this wont accept negative values, I guess is there in order to measure pressure on the fuel pump, so not suitable.

PGN130314 is an odd one, Timo only lists PressureSources for Atmospheric, Water, Steam, CompressedAir and Hydraulic (4). Will search and see if indeed 5 Filterpressure is accepted and see where I can show it (well, not much point doing something if nothing supports its display...)

Alternative is to use PGN127489, and issue a engine warning if value drops lower than something I set. Means I don't actually broadcast the pressure value (would be wrong as I'd have to drop the minus...) just a warning/error message that will be broadcast on all NMEA2K devices (GPSMAP plotters, 4in displays, Maretron, etc). I'm using this feature already for some events, works fine.

Will also check the custom PGNs that Maretron FPM100 broadcasts and see if they are suitable,
will report when back on the boat next week

cheers

V.

 

[pandos]

Llpll

You be better off putting your effort into keep the tanks clean, rather than giving yourself a few minutes warning of doom.
I know from helping a mate clean his tank, that a filter can go from new to blocked in a very short time.

On the subject of electrical warnings and filters, many car filter assemblies these days have contacts in them to warn of excess water.
Might be worth implementing in a boat?

A gauge will provide an indication of other mishaps also.. such as a failing pump or a split hose .

My tank is spotlessly clean and only has new fresh road diesel bought from busy service station...

I see a gauge as a means reassurance that the fuel system is probably ok whilst motoring .

Good point about the water sensors...
I have replaced both my filters with spin on automotive Bosch filters. I will look out for those sensors which screw into the underside.

As I only motor when I need to I would be stuffed if it packed up suddenly...

 

[neil1967]

Thanks all for your ideas. I will probably stick with extending the pipe/hose to the new gauge location!