electric or manual windless?

[lindsay]

Just to turn the usual question around, has anyone regretted replacing a manual windlass with an electric version?

i always sail singlehanded and am told I would have to go forward in any event.

 

[macd]

Just to turn the usual question around, has anyone regretted replacing a manual windlass with an electric version?

i always sail singlehanded and am told I would have to go forward in any event.

I dareasy that very few people who've 'upgraded' to electric are dissatisfied, unless the installation is in some way poor or unreliable. I'd certainly never willingly go back to manual, but then I spend most of the year on the hook. For someone anchoring only rarely, on a boat that has relatively light gear, it's a lot of trouble and expense.

If windlasses were made with anyone in mind, it's the single-hander. Surely one of the biggest worries is dragging at night in foul conditions towards hazards (or simply wishing to move from such a risk). An electric windlass gives you better options, especially if it can be controlled from the helm. To my mind, the latter is vital, although for routine windlass work the bow is the better place to be. Fit dual controls.

 

[GHA]

Just to turn the usual question around, has anyone regretted replacing a manual windlass with an electric version?

i always sail singlehanded and am told I would have to go forward in any event.

One of the best additions the boat has had
With a cheap garage door remote control added , as a fellow single hander, the trip to the bow is only if I fancy the walk

 

[Tranona]

Depends in part on the size of the boat and anchor plus of course how much you anchor. however once you have had a good electric windlass with a remote control you won't want to go back.

 

[lindsay]

Two fine and prompt replies, thanks.

I have a 29 footer and sail year round in the Med, anchoring some 150 times a year, using a Simpson Lawrence manual. Cost is not an issue, especially if it will help lengthen my liveaboard active life.

What bothers me is how to ensure that it can be controlled from the cockpit, which would be nirvana. Is it a question of how the chain falls in? I see there is a rocking type of anchor roller that can spew the anchor in, but that would hit against the genoa furler

I was always told you could not haul up the boat on the engine alone. In fact I do that now on the manual, altho sometimes it takes an age. Bringing up the anchor when directly over it has rarely been a problem.

I frequently see fellow yachties with their better half at the helm struggling to get the anchor in, and only rarely seen a singlehander do everything effortlessly from the cockpit.

I guess I wiil have to install the power job and hope that it will make life easier sailing into my dotage.

 

[OldBawley]

I still use a manual windlass. ( SL Seatiger )
There has been moments I wished to be able to lift the anchor from the steering position.
Single-handed leaving a lee shore in a blow for instance.
I managed up to now by putting the engine in very slow forward and engaging the autopilot.
Then running to the bow and winching as hell.

I postponed installing an electric windlass for many years now, just because I am to lazy to do the work of pulling the cables.
To justify my postponing I like to think at plus points for manual.

Our Seatiger with its hardened steel gears and modified gipsy ( smaller ) is able to lift stuff from the bottom that 95% of the electric ones cant move. We fouled the anchor several times in very heavy moorings, I was always able to free ourself without a diver.

Breakage of that old SL is as good as impossible, electric anchor winches are nr two failure points

I like to leave under sail, don't have to start the engine to lift the anchor. Most yachts need a running engine to use the windlass, I wonder why.

In 16 years of Med sailing It happened twice I needed to leave a lee shore and our battery´s ware dead. I could lift the anchor and sail off. Can modern electric windlasses still be operated by hand ?

When I find the courage to pull those heavy cables we go electric.
Each time I have to back into a quay single-handed, running fore and aft all the time I swear I will buy the electric that same day.

 

[duncan99210]

Never had a manual windlass so can't comment on that aspect. I fitted a wireless remote control off eBay to our winch a few years back and it has made anchor handling simple. Usually there's the two of us on board, one does the anchor, the other the helm but on the odd occassion where it's been necessary to do things single handed what I do is to haul in the chain until there's only a couple of metres on the bottom, adjust the chain heap as required so as to leave space for the remaining chain to be hauled without needing any further spreading of the heap. I can then return to the helm, hoist the remaining chain from there and get out of the anchorage before putting on the autopilot and returning to the bow to stow that anchor and tidy up as required. The essential bit is the wireless remote: £15 or so off eBay. The first one fitted lasted about 4 years of 150+ nights at anchor a year, just fitted the replacement one which has two remotes, so it should last me another 8 years for more.

 

[macd]

1. What bothers me is how to ensure that it can be controlled from the cockpit, which would be nirvana. Is it a question of how the chain falls in? I see there is a rocking type of anchor roller that can spew the anchor in, but that would hit against the genoa furler.

2. I was always told you could not haul up the boat on the engine alone. In fact I do that now on the manual, altho sometimes it takes an age. Bringing up the anchor when directly over it has rarely been a problem.

3. I frequently see fellow yachties with their better half at the helm struggling to get the anchor in, and only rarely seen a singlehander do everything effortlessly from the cockpit.

4. I guess I wiil have to install the power job and hope that it will make life easier sailing into my dotage.

Lindsay:
1. Putting a switch in the cockpit is simply (ha!) a matter of wiring; or, as said above, using a remote control. 95+% of the time, I do it from the bow because there's no reason not to and you're in better control of what's going on. So doing it from the cockpit is for use in extremis...and obviously will only work if your chain will self-stow (without trashing your furler). If it won't, it needs sorting, and the 'how' is specific to your boat.

You seem to have a bit of a hang-up about being in the cockpit. Really, there's no need. Usually there's plenty of time to be at the bow, get the hook up, and saunter back to the helm. Your boat won't dash away like a mad thing unless it's really blowing.

If you're going to use the windlass from the cockpit, you'll benefit for some means of seeing when the hook's almost at the bow roller. Bright yellow paint on a good length of the chain works as well as anything, but you'll still struggle to see it in the dark.

2. Yes, windlass handbooks usually tell you not to use them to haul the boat to the hook, but that can be tricky to accomplish on your own. If conditions are benign, I think it's perfectly OK to use the windlass in this way, but pulsed: take in some chain, stop, let the catenary pull the boat towards the hook. Repeat...what's the hurry? But, in an emergency, you'd do whatever you needed to do. That's the nature of emergencies, and a burnt-out windlass (which is unlikely, anaway) is far preferable to a wrecked yacht. If you're concerned about overloading it, overrate the windlass slightly (say 1kW rather than 750W for your boat) and underrate the breaker (say from 100 to 80A). (I had that sort of set-up on a 32-footer for about six years, during which it tripped just once...when it picked up a mooring chain with links bigger than your head.)

3. You should know by now that in the Med you can expect to see everything, and then a little more...

4. Good holding and fair winds.

 

[TQA]

I have a 44ft mono and replaced the manual with a Lofrans Tigres. I am now able to reanchor as often as I need to if the holding is iffy.

Pressing the button and watching the anchor come up without any sweat is a good feeling when my back is iffy.

 

[ip485]

I think with that size anchor both are possible, but obvioulsy an electric windlass offers many advantages.

I have once winched mine manually but with a 55Kg Rocna it is not for the faint hearted.

As others have said some form of remote, wireless or hard wired in the cockpit is straight forward.

Sorting out the take up system is even more important. It is difficult to comment on this aspect without knowing all the details. I have what I term a nodding donkey to reduce the load on the windlass as the shaft comes over the roller, but I dont think you are referring to that type of system.

The only real contribution I can make is that I would consider a windlass into which you can also insert a winch handle - at least then you have a manual fall back because as with anything electrical it will probably fail one day.

 

[macd]

The only real contribution I can make is that I would consider a windlass into which you can also insert a winch handle - at least then you have a manual fall back because as with anything electrical it will probably fail one day.

A winch which can in emergency be cranked manually, yes. But there are designs (typically on horizontal rather than vertical windlasses) which rely on something other than a winch handle.

 

[PeterC]

Yes, you are of course correct. I assumed smaller windlasses might use a winch handle. Mine uses a very large wrench, its a lighthouse windlass.

 

[Neeves]

Lighthouse windlass must be some of the best around, with prices to match. They sadly do not appear to make anything small.

Some of Maxwell's windlass can be operated by hand, a winch handle. On a small yacht this would not be a real issue (as I'm not sure I'd like to lift a 50kg anchor + some chain that way). However you need to be careful - you can only lift by hand if the windlass is quite well aft as the turning circle of the winch handle is quite large and most bows are 'busy'. I assume other windlass makers have the same hand operated system (its hardly sophisticated).

 

[ip485]

Yes, I am very pleased with the Lighthouse. It has amazing lifting power and has proved very robust. I have hand cranked the Lighthouse with my 55KG Rocna - it is a slow process but works fine.



The nodding donkey makes recovery of the last few feet so much easier.

 

[Tradewinds]

Yes, I am very pleased with the Lighthouse. It has amazing lifting power and has proved very robust. I have hand cranked the Lighthouse with my 55KG Rocna - it is a slow process but works fine.

View attachment 55219

The nodding donkey makes recovery of the last few feet so much easier.

Had a Lighthouse 1501 on my boat (12m) since 1996 when I imported it from the States to Trinidad along with 100m Acco G40 chain.

Excellent bit of kit but mucho dinero

Wouldn't want to be without it though.

 

[ip485]

Slight thread drift (apologies) but can you over anchor? I did wonder because the 55Kg replaced my 35Kg spade. At the time they didnt have a 45 Rocna in stock (the 35 was always a little small) so I went for the 55. It is incredible in terms of its holding power and the Windlass can handle it so I dont have any regrets - yet?

 

[OldBawley]

Five anchors on board, used twice four to create a spider web and sleep trough a force 10 anchored in a small cove. That was four anchors and two land lines. Speaking of playing boat.
A different kind of over anchoring ?

 

[Minchsailor]

I mostly sail single handed (36ft, 9-10T) and would not be without my electric windlass. I can operate it from both the foredeck and the helm. Easy enough to make your own control box with a couple of weather proof push buttons and a box from Maplins, with 3 core flex paralleling the normal switches - although I have bought a 2 channel remote control that I will fit this coming summer.

I very seldom operate it from the foredeck; allways from the helm. I have the chain well marked. I know when the anchor is about the come over the bow roller. The chain locker is quite deep and the chain seems to 'pyramid' OK, but if the locker was shallower I would have to 'sort it out' if I every 15m or so.

 

[Neeves]

Of Lighthouse, I think a 12m yacht is about the smallest to use their range. They have an incredibly high reputation and use enormous amounts of stainless (which is one reason they are very expensive). If we were into a larger yacht size, or needed a large windlass they would be something to consider - but I think the cheapest is around Stg2,500 - and that makes my wallet very scared.

On being 'over-anchored' I'm not going there! But as has been mentioned in other threads deploying a second anchor can make your situation more comfortable as 2 anchors in a 'V' can reduce veering (as a bridle can on a beamy mono or a multi). Minimise veering and you have a more comfortable night. Veering is a big issue with modern lightly built common production yachts (in anchorages with fluke, gusty winds) - not such an issue with heavier, long keel boats. But the idea of having a monster anchor and having to deploy a second anchor to control veering - seems partially negate the need for the large anchor in the first place?

Jonathan

Jonathan

 

[Tradewinds]

Of Lighthouse, I think a 12m yacht is about the smallest to use their range. They have an incredibly high reputation and use enormous amounts of stainless (which is one reason they are very expensive). If we were into a larger yacht size, or needed a large windlass they would be something to consider - but I think the cheapest is around Stg2,500 - and that makes my wallet very scared.

Visually they are a homage to the well-known manual SL555 ( which mine replaced).

So the look is the same (only more blingy with the polished stainless) and they wouldn't look out of place on most boats under 12m. However, their price outside of the USA puts them into a different league. One which is probably way beyond what most people with a sub-12m boat would want to pay for a windlass that was perhaps used intermittently.

IMO the 1501 is an excellent bit of kit and was worth (in my case) every penny/cent when I was a full-time liveaboard cruiser back in the 90's.