Elec cable colours for re-wiring ?

[sarabande]

I have just been roaming around the West Marine site.

They have a list of colours to be used for various functions round the boat.

Is this a universal standard, or for USA only, please ?


If USA only, is there a comparable UK/EU one ?

TIA


View attachment 41956

 

[David2452]

The standardised colours are rarely used (engine loom aside) on EU produced boats, they are a good idea provided nobody adds to them with the wrong colour stuff later which negates the whole idea and of course that's what tends to happen.

 

[sarabande]

that was lightning fast, thanks

 

[prv]

That certainly doesn't match the colours the (Swedish) builder used on our boat.

I'm not aware of any UK or EU standard for 12v, beyond red for positive and black for negative.

If you tried to rewire one boat using a scheme like this, you'd end up ordering and wasting a lot of cable in all the different colours. You may not even be able to buy tinned cable in such a range, and having rewired two boats because the old stuff was blackened and unusable throughout, I would say you definitely want tinned.

I suggest buying a couple of hundred-metre reels of thin-wall red/black 1.5mm and a 30m reel of 2.5mm, plus larger sizes by the metre as required. Then label each run using a TZ label printer, with transparent heatshrink applied over the top. If you're concerned about identifying a cable halfway along the run rather than at a labelled end, buy one of those cable tracers that put a tone onto the cable and then detect it inductively.

Pete

 

[David2452]

I'm not aware of any UK or EU standard for 12v, beyond red for positive and black for negative. Pete

There is no requirement for red positive conductors in EU or UK standard, negatives however should be black or yellow, the extra low voltage DC standards are more about what colours should not be used, and particularly what colours should not be used when low voltage AC conductor insulation of some permitted colour combinations is installed aboard.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I'm not aware of any UK or EU standard for 12v, beyond red for positive and black for negative.

There are standards for cars. Those of us with older British cars will have met the Lucas colour code, and I believe there is a more modern and similar European standard as well. It would make some sense if boat builders used the same system, but I have no idea if any do.

 

[LadyInBed]

There is no actual standard for boat wiring in the UK.
You can follow the American one or make up your own, but whichever you choose, make sure you document it.
A wrap round numbering system on each end of a wire is quite a useful system.

 

[nigelmercier]

... It would make some sense if boat builders used the same system, but I have no idea if any do...

They probably wouldn't get to use Green/Purple very often

I'm gradually labelling many of my wires, something like this is handy http://amzn.to/1ruh8ZL

 

[Keith-i]

. You may not even be able to buy tinned cable in such a range, and having rewired two boats because the old stuff was blackened and unusable throughout, I would say you definitely want

Pete

I substantially rewired our MB last year and used the US colour scheme. All grades and colours were available in tinned from Ancor Marine.

 

[David2452]

I use one of these http://www.labelzone.co.uk/kroy-k5100-portable-cable-and-label-printer/p2603 which I have had for a couple of years but the price is now down to the level a serious DIY rewiring project could justify. They print direct to heatshrink tube and strip labels.

 

[sarabande]

that is a really good device David. I saw it demo-ed at the Elex show on Friday in Exeter, and spoke with their people on the Brother stand. There are more new labels coming out which are extra strong adhesive, don't shrink, UV resistant and designed for cable ID.

I have an email to Label Zone pending, and will post info when they return with an answer.

 

[prv]

I'm gradually labelling many of my wires, something like this is handy http://amzn.to/1ruh8ZL

That's very similar to what I use.

On Kindred Spirit, I made the mistake of trying to wrap the labels around the wires, leaving a "flag" sticking out. After a couple of years, many of them had unstuck.

On Ariam I got some half-size tape that could stick (temporarily) along the length of the wire, then applied transparent heatshrink over the top. That looks very smart and should last indefinitely.

David's print-direct-to-heatshrink machine sounds even better.

Pete

 

[oldsaltoz]

The USA, EU and Automotive standards are useful but not a requirement on your boat, you would also have a full drawing with the correct colour or numbers to represent the colours.

This amounts to a possible bundle of cable left unused after buying enough of each colour plus a bit more to be sure you have no extra joints.

All a bit of a waste of time and effort not to mention money.

All you need is a label on the box end, the small ring type do not fade and can not fall off.

A simple red cover tells you it is a live wire when power is added.
A Black wire is the return cable so will also have power running through it when the device is turned on. Best to use twin cable so you have the complete circuit in the same casing.
A green cable is used for and bonding such as anodes etc.

Remember the KISS rule Keep It Simple Stupid.
Also note, there are very few Automotive electricians who have the colour codes committed to memory, and even fewer Marine electricians.

Only use tinned cable. it will reduce breakdowns and a hell of a lot longer.

It can also be advantageous to actually solder the lamps in areas like the mast head and navigation (port/starboard) lights, this all but eliminates problems with moisture.

Good luck and fair winds.

 

[sarabande]

I am really quite unhappy about the use of just two colours, even though I understand and agree with OldSaltOz's KISS principle. At the same time buying a full reel of pink just for the fuel guage is stupid and expensive.

Beginning to wonder if there is not a simplified system one could use which will group colours by function.

Negative - always BLACK

Supply side
INSTRUMENTS
PUMPS and FANS (likely to be a bit heavier dia, anyway)
CABIN LIGHTS
MOTIVE POWER (winches, cig lighter sockets, etc)
NAV LIGHTS
IGNITION/CHARGING (again loads, therefore dia, will vary)

If one allocates a colour to each group, such a scheme would go a long way to identifying the usual nest of cabling hidden behind a ceiling plate or mast foot.

Can anyone suggest another / better / simpler grouping ? I realise that it would not be possible or economic to standardise on one size cable per colour, but six colours is going to go a long way to make identification of cable runs much easier and less full of doubt.

Also as has been pointed out, the "as installed" and logical diagrams would be much better using colours analogous to the physical cable.

Perhaps a bit too unKISS?

 

[prv]

If one allocates a colour to each group, such a scheme would go a long way to identifying the usual nest of cabling hidden behind a ceiling plate or mast foot.

Really? Wouldn't they turn out to all be the same colour because they're all going to navigation lights? But which is which?

Rigorous labelling is the only sensible way to keep track of what's what. During the installation process (before things are cut to length) use a reel of white PVC tape and a sharpie to quickly hand-write labels. Once you know where the final end will be, apply the final label with a printing machine and heatshrink.

All my wiring is in black and red, mostly two-core sheathed cable except for the larger stuff in 4mm or 6mm singles. I did the rewire in two stages with a season of sailing in between, and every single cable had to be re-terminated to the new panel added in the second stage. I had no trouble whatsoever identifying them by their labels.

Pete

 

[prv]

All a bit of a waste of time and effort not to mention money.

All you need is a label on the box end, the small ring type do not fade and can not fall off.

A simple red cover tells you it is a live wire when power is added.
A Black wire is the return cable so will also have power running through it when the device is turned on. Best to use twin cable so you have the complete circuit in the same casing.
A green cable is used for and bonding such as anodes etc.

Remember the KISS rule Keep It Simple Stupid.
Also note, there are very few Automotive electricians who have the colour codes committed to memory, and even fewer Marine electricians.

Only use tinned cable. it will reduce breakdowns and a hell of a lot longer.

It can also be advantageous to actually solder the lamps in areas like the mast head and navigation (port/starboard) lights, this all but eliminates problems with moisture.

Agree entirely with everything here. Although I have no green cabling because my only anodes are mounted directly on the items they protect .

My navigation lights are all by Bebi, which come with short lengths of tinned wire instead of fitting into Victorian spring-loaded sockets, so soldering them permanently to the supply cable and protecting with adhesive heatshrink is a no-brainer. Unfortunately you can't buy them now as the Fijian government drove the company out of business shortly after I bought my last batch

Pete

 

[oldsaltoz]

I am really quite unhappy about the use of just two colours, even though I understand and agree with OldSaltOz's KISS principle. At the same time buying a full reel of pink just for the fuel guage is stupid and expensive.

Beginning to wonder if there is not a simplified system one could use which will group colours by function.

Negative - always BLACK

Supply side
INSTRUMENTS
PUMPS and FANS (likely to be a bit heavier dia, anyway)
CABIN LIGHTS
MOTIVE POWER (winches, cig lighter sockets, etc)
NAV LIGHTS
IGNITION/CHARGING (again loads, therefore dia, will vary)

If one allocates a colour to each group, such a scheme would go a long way to identifying the usual nest of cabling hidden behind a ceiling plate or mast foot.

Can anyone suggest another / better / simpler grouping ? I realise that it would not be possible or economic to standardise on one size cable per colour, but six colours is going to go a long way to make identification of cable runs much easier and less full of doubt.

Also as has been pointed out, the "as installed" and logical diagrams would be much better using colours analogous to the physical cable.

Perhaps a bit too unKISS?

Don't forget, you will have a diagram on board (Suitable sealed in clear plastic) for each cable, and it's number/name alongside it. a bunch of blue cables to one breaker/fuse will have to be labelled or you have nothing to tell what that cables function is. So a cross reference using cable markers is better than colour coding.

PS, try to keep things like cabin and nave lights spread over more than one breaker, that way you don't get a completely blacked out cabin or total loss of nave lights.

Good luck and fair winds.

So it's a new colour foe every cable or a drawing with cable ID.

 

[prv]

PS, try to keep things like cabin and nave lights spread over more than one breaker, that way you don't get a completely blacked out cabin or total loss of nave lights.

I have a 5 amp fuse for the overall nav light supply (protecting the cable that runs up to the switch in the cockpit), but where the individual wiring runs head off the to various lamps I have them fused individually at 1 amp (LED lights). Long wires inside a metal mast with other things seemed like by far the most likely place for a short - if one light's supply shorts, I don't want it taking out any others. Being under 12m (and therefore allowed to use a single white for steaming and stern light combined) I can actually show legal lights for power or sail with any one lamp disabled.

Must admit that I have all my cabin lights on one fuse, but I do have torches liberally scattered around the cabin

EDIT: "any one lamp disabled" not quite correct - if I lose the bow bicolour I can't show correct motoring lights. But I have a spare bicolour lantern in a locker that could be lashed in place and connected to the foredeck utility socket.

Pete

 

[Hydrozoan]

Speaking of labelling and wiring diagrams, does anyone know of - and better still, have experience of - a software product suitable for the amateur (and his wallet) for producing simple circuit diagrams? I realise that one could use a general drawing utility, but wonder if there is a simple package available which is dedicated to the task.

 

[David2452]

Speaking of labelling and wiring diagrams, does anyone know of - and better still, have experience of - a software product suitable for the amateur (and his wallet) for producing simple circuit diagrams? I realise that one could use a general drawing utility, but wonder if there is a simple package available which is dedicated to the task.

Solve Elec is free and certainly up to the task.