Effect of coronavirus on UK/European sailing?

[[165264]]

I'm trying to find positives. I don't currently have a boat. I'm still mulling it over. I joined a boat share scheme in Hamble for 2 years, which was good for getting experience, but had some drawbacks, so that I lost interest to some extent. I was thinking about getting a boat; probably next year now. Assuming that I survive the pandemic, this is what I think: in my 2 years of sailing, I saw few young sailors, outside of races. Most of the owners were 60+; the very age group where mortality rises. Now, if the public are collectively sensible, we are predicted an addition 20,000 deaths from the virus. If the government's voluntary measures don't work, due to feckless morons deciding to go to the pub, as the rules somehow don't apply to them, then it could be much more, and if it were allowed to let rip, then 500,000. Yes folks, half a million deaths. So, wherever the figure, I am thinking that there might be quite a few boat sales by executors. Also, given a reduction in sailors, there just MIGHT be a bit of competition for customers amongst marinas on the south coast, driving prices down to some extent. Having said that, I was astonished to learn (from someone who knows) that Premier Marinas is not a good earner for its parent organisation. (The Wellcome Foundation- Britain's biggest charity.) It's an ill wind..... as they say.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

 

[KGA]

You won’t get into any port here now or even leave - port authority has banned ships/yachts leaving or entering harbour in Algarve as of today and all workshop / land based marine facilities closed to non Portuguese/ non commercial operations ie only fisherman permitted services. Marinas also on phone / email only

state of the times..... Albufeira , Algarve

My understanding is that while in the transition period I can sail my boat to Portugal, take a contract in a marina, use that as an address and get a 5 year temp residency permit. After transition my regular income won't be sufficient to get the other type of visa (the one where you need a regular income equal to or greater than the Portuguese minimum wage) until I am 67 and in receipt of all my pensions which I am some way off. Any tips or advice that you may have would be appreciated...

 

[Graham376]

My understanding is that while in the transition period I can sail my boat to Portugal, take a contract in a marina, use that as an address and get a 5 year temp residency permit. After transition my regular income won't be sufficient to get the other type of visa (the one where you need a regular income equal to or greater than the Portuguese minimum wage) until I am 67 and in receipt of all my pensions which I am some way off. Any tips or advice that you may have would be appreciated...

Can't remember which thread it was on but a case was quoted recently of a bloke who had gone elsewhere during his 5 year residence then came back and was given another 5 years rather than permanent. When applying for permanent status at SEF (Immigration Dept.), they are looking for evidence that the person is settled here, has a residence (owned or leased) and sufficient income - I just prepared a spreadsheet listing finances which she totally ignored. I doubt a marina berth would be acceptable for permanent residence application but, it often depends on the mood of the official on the day, seems everyone has their own interpretation of the rules and of course this is Portugal where decisions often depend on who one knows and favours owed.

 

[V1701]

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think V1701 wants to live there full time , just get a resident permit so he can get some kind of free movement .

@V1701 depending how long the coronavirus last , there could be some changes to the rules so you may still be lucky .

Thanks Vic, it's all of the above really, the plan is go with boat, get residency & spend the rest of the year, return to UK to work couple more years before returning to live FT. I'd have thought for someone in their 50s with no Portuguese there'd be virtually nil chance of paid work but if the opportunity arose I would do so happily...

 

[V1701]

You won’t get into any port here now or even leave - port authority has banned ships/yachts leaving or entering harbour in Algarve as of today and all workshop / land based marine facilities closed to non Portuguese/ non commercial operations ie only fisherman permitted services. Marinas also on phone / email only

state of the times..... Albufeira , Algarve

I know, currently wondering how long before we are not allowed to even go for a day sail here...

 

[V1701]

Can't remember which thread it was on but a case was quoted recently of a bloke who had gone elsewhere during his 5 year residence then came back and was given another 5 years rather than permanent. When applying for permanent status at SEF (Immigration Dept.), they are looking for evidence that the person is settled here, has a residence (owned or leased) and sufficient income - I just prepared a spreadsheet listing finances which she totally ignored. I doubt a marina berth would be acceptable for permanent residence application but, it often depends on the mood of the official on the day, seems everyone has their own interpretation of the rules and of course this is Portugal where decisions often depend on who one knows and favours owed.

That sounds about right, I kept a boat in Greece for a couple of years, let's say things were somewhat random and inefficient at times but I tell you what though, almost everyone was always super friendly. Even the port police...

 

[KGA]

There are no foreign yachts permitted and you need a work visa to be employed - 14 foreign workers deported last December from Algarve working without permits. That applies to all countries including EU. The 5 year visa also applies to any non portuguese citizen and must be taken out for stays over 90 days with 30 days grace to get it from the municipAl offices with your Portuguese fiscal number

Thanks Vic, it's all of the above really, the plan is go with boat, get residency & spend the rest of the year, return to UK to work couple more years before returning to live FT. I'd have thought for someone in their 50s with no Portuguese there'd be virtually nil chance of paid work but if the opportunity arose I would do so happily...

 

[KGA]

I know, currently wondering how long before we are not allowed to even go for a day sail here...

We are not allowed to say sail in Portugal as of yesterday

 

[srm]

There are no foreign yachts permitted and you need a work visa to be employed - 14 foreign workers deported last December from Algarve working without permits. That applies to all countries including EU. The 5 year visa also applies to any non portuguese citizen and must be taken out for stays over 90 days with 30 days grace to get it from the municipAl offices with your Portuguese fiscal number

A bit confused by your reference to work permits/visas. With my UK passport I had the 5 year EU resident certificate and registered as self employed with Financas so I could do occasional work for a local yacht charter company. My Canadian wife has a non-EU spouses residence card and was employed by a local business. Neither of us had a work visa. We were also issued with Social Security cards as we were employed.

 

[KGA]

A bit confused by your reference to work permits/visas. With my UK passport I had the 5 year EU resident certificate and registered as self employed with Financas so I could do occasional work for a local yacht charter company. My Canadian wife has a non-EU spouses residence card and was employed by a local business. Neither of us had a work visa. We were also issued with Social Security cards as we were employed.

see below for 90 day rules and working/ temporary etc

Types of Portugal Visa: Your Guide for Visiting and Staying in Portugal

 

[sailaboutvic]

Some must wonder when reading my posting in this and in other thread why I am so frustrated with people who insisted it ok for them to go off sail . Here an example how some think it's ok to do what they want .
By the way the original posting was edited after a it got flooder with replies what people thought of their posting.

The posting read

WANTED: SOME EXTRA HANDS SAILING NORTH
We are in Las Palmas Gran Canaria, Heading for Sweden. Probably on Saturday. We May make a stop in Gibraltar Or Portugal, if allowed. Please let US know IF You Or somwone You know Can and want to join our crew!

PS Since some People react very strongly against The idea of sailing NORTH now, I Can inform You that our skipper of Elida (a 40 meter Long ketch, made for ocean passenger sailing) has made exactly this trip at this time of the year for 14 years in a row. Of course We check up on The weather forecast every Day. Saturday seem to be a good Day to take off.
It is not a joke.
PPS
We area group of Swedish citizens trying to get back to our home country, due to cancelled plans, due to The virus.

The photo posted ..

 

[eddystone]

Some must wonder when reading my posting in this and in other thread why I am so frustrated with people who insisted it ok for them to go off sail . Here an example how some think it's ok to do what they want .
By the way the original posting was edited after a it got flooder with replies what people thought of their posting.

The posting read

WANTED: SOME EXTRA HANDS SAILING NORTH
We are in Las Palmas Gran Canaria, Heading for Sweden. Probably on Saturday. We May make a stop in Gibraltar Or Portugal, if allowed. Please let US know IF You Or somwone You know Can and want to join our crew!

PS Since some People react very strongly against The idea of sailing NORTH now, I Can inform You that our skipper of Elida (a 40 meter Long ketch, made for ocean passenger sailing) has made exactly this trip at this time of the year for 14 years in a row. Of course We check up on The weather forecast every Day. Saturday seem to be a good Day to take off.
It is not a joke.
PPS
We area group of Swedish citizens trying to get back to our home country, due to cancelled plans, due to The virus.

The photo posted ..

Wouldn’t be too judgemental - you may not be aware of full circumstances

 

[sailaboutvic]

Wouldn’t be too judgemental - you may not be aware of full circumstances

I can't see very little reason if any for a group of people not only refusing to do as there been instructions to do in another country there in ,
let alone encourage other to join them with no knowable way of knowing where they been or who they been in contract with ,

Most are going to be non sailors other very novices having little if any idea what it's like this time of year sailing back .
admit the boat is a big boat they plain to sail North ,
when every harbour is close even cruise ship are refused entry, you only need one to become seriously ill and it didn't have to be Corna and need help from a shore base emergency service and other have to risk their life's.
if they manage to get back to Sweden Theu still going to have to sit it out for another 14 days and what is there to say if there can't obey the law in the country there are in , they going to obey once back in Sweden .

Over the last few weeks there been a few of these selfies skippers
Some have been stop in there track and made to stay put in other country's in much worst conditions then if they stayed put.
They then can't wait to post on the internet how unfair other country are being to them,
I can tell you they are not getting any sympathy for others Cruisers.