"Education not Legislation"

[VO5]

This topic has been re-hashed ad nauseam on this forum so I won't prolong the agony. The problem with the numpty referred to in the OP and seen by all of us regularly out on the water is that they confuse 'no need for qualifications' with 'no need for knowledge'.

How do you get across to these people the fact that their ignorance can kill themselves, their passengers and, from time to time, other water users?

That's exactly it !

You have taken the words out of my mouth snowleopard.

Now the question must be not necessarily the quantity of knowledge but its depth and quality.

 

[Malabar]

For motorists, the roads carrying the greatest traffic levels (motorways) require all drivers to have passed a driving test. Learners without qualifications can acquire skills on other highways. Perhaps the same philosophy could be applied to boating. I suggest the Serpentine be designated for those whose knowledge of the highway code and “vehicle control” has not been proven under examination

 

[dt4134]

For motorists, the roads carrying the greatest traffic levels (motorways) require all drivers to have passed a driving test. Learners without qualifications can acquire skills on other highways. Perhaps the same philosophy could be applied to boating. I suggest the Serpentine be designated for those whose knowledge of the highway code and “vehicle control” has not been proven under examination

Naw! The Serpentine is too small. You'd need something bigger, such as the Solent.

 

[Searush]

As I understand it - RNLI has Charity Status and therefore has to clear funds. It cannot accrue and build a large bank balance. Maybe I'm wrong ?

On a much smaller and less serious scale - I'm involved with creating a new Yachting Association over here and that has similar financial limitations - all funds in must be used other than an agreed float balance.

Not sure what you mean by "float balance". We carry a £50 petty cash float, but as an organisation (shortly to become a charity) we have reserve funds that approximate to one year's running costs - which is a fair amount of readies. These reserves have been accrued over several years trading at a small surplus. We are currently expanding & will eat into the reserves for a few years until revenue growth meets our increased expenditure. I will then accrue a reasonable reserve once more before deciding our next steps. This is a perfectly reasonable & business like way to behave, protects my trustees, employees, volunteers & customers. The Charity Commision like sound financial management.

Interestingly, the post on RNLI accounts shows that they consider 3 years revenues as a reasonable running cost. I have also know charities that have accrued enough cash/assets to buy their rented premises, or get new one built.

 

[ctelfer38]

Comparisons

I should've put a smiley in my last post.

Yes, I agree there isn't a big issue requiring legislation. The current system works. My opinion is that compulsory quals would make the situation worse because any conceivable compulsory qualification will be at too low a level.

I'd go further and say that the YM Offshore is probably the lowest level that would indicate a resonable level of competence (I'm not really knocking it but just that I consider it only the end of the beginning of the learning curve).

There is no way that that YM could be made compulsory and to tell someone with a lower level that they're fully qualified is dangerous.

Far better that we all realise that we still have a lot to learn no matter how much we've learnt already. Those at the bottom of the learning curve (like the skipper mentioned in the OP) who don't know yet will soon learn (maybe he's learnt already).

D'accord.

 

[dulcibella]

My concern is that there will sooner or later be a horrendous accident involving loss of lives in a collision involving an unqualified skipper. The red-tops will then launch an emotion-driven campaign for mandatory qualifications, to which the government of the day will accede in order to gain popularity points.

 

[timbartlett]

My concern is that there will sooner or later be a horrendous accident involving loss of lives in a collision involving an unqualified skipper. The red-tops will then launch an emotion-driven campaign for mandatory qualifications, to which the government of the day will accede in order to gain popularity points.

It's interesting to consider what passes as "a horrendous accident" in this context.

When an average of a couple of people per year die in boating accidents that might conceivably have something to do with alcohol, the MCA and MAIB use it as the basis for a campaign for legislation. When dozens of people are driven to suicide by the actions of the CSA or are mown down by speeding police cars, nothing happens.

And, FWIW, it is very difficult to imagine any situation in which it would be possible to kill or injure someone (other than yourself or possibly someone on your own boat) without infringing at least one existing law.

 

[Master_and_Commander]

In a sick sort of way I wish I'd been there to see it! Sorry.....

Seriously now, I don't think mandatory training is a good thing, it would take away the best aspect of sailing, the freedom.
However, I do think people should have the common sense to do some sort of 'practice' before they take a boat out - be it formal or otherwise.

I learnt to sail hands on from an early age by watching my father, and I have now completed my Day Skipper Tidal practical (which was great fun incidentally!).

Common sense is not something possessed by everyone sadly, and there will always be people like this guy.
I think the bottom line is that for every one person like him there are hundreds who are competent, safe etc, and you can't stop every accident or wally in charge of a boat, it's just one of those things unfortunately.

 

[reginaldon]

It's interesting to consider what passes as "a horrendous accident" in this context.

When an average of a couple of people per year die in boating accidents that might conceivably have something to do with alcohol, the MCA and MAIB use it as the basis for a campaign for legislation. When dozens of people are driven to suicide by the actions of the CSA or are mown down by speeding police cars, nothing happens.

And, FWIW, it is very difficult to imagine any situation in which it would be possible to kill or injure someone (other than yourself or possibly someone on your own boat) without infringing at least one existing law.

With you all the way Tim.