********!! Eberspacher

Well, after reading all the stuff on here and watching several videos on You Tube I have ordered a Chinese heater from a supplier on e-bay. Its billed as an 8Kw but all info on You Tube suggests that all the 5Kw units are exactly the same size and give the same output and the 2Kw ones are very noisy in comparison. Just had an e-mail from Hermes saying it will be delivered today which isn't bad as I only ordered it yesterday. At £99.99 I am amused to report that it cost less than the Chinese meal for 4 that we enjoyed last night! I will update when I get it....
 
boatmike said:
Well, after reading all the stuff on here and watching several videos on You Tube I have ordered a Chinese heater from a supplier on e-bay. Its billed as an 8Kw but all info on You Tube suggests that all the 5Kw units are exactly the same size and give the same output and the 2Kw ones are very noisy in comparison. Just had an e-mail from Hermes saying it will be delivered today which isn't bad as I only ordered it yesterday. At £99.99 I am amused to report that it cost less than the Chinese meal for 4 that we enjoyed last night! I will update when I get it....
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I tested both 5 k and 2k Chinese heaters and regularly test ebers. I did not notice any significant extra noise compared to ebers.
 
Perhaps I wasn't clear. There are several tests shown on U Tube. British, Australian and American. They all suggest the 2Kw is noisier than the 5 or 8Kw. One that I saw dismantled the fan on a 2Kw and suggested most of the noise came from a badly unbalanced fan and noisy motor. The larger model seems to have a better fan/motor than the smaller one. Possibly because it is just bigger and more robust. Possibly also because it wont be running at such a constant high speed to keep up. The smaller one is actually rated at 2 to 5Kw. The larger 5 to 8 Kw. So to turn out a constant 5Kw the smaller one will be running flat out and the larger one not. This means less noise, less bearing wear, and less general stress otherwise. The counter argument is that running flat out all the time means less carbonisation. Most agree that any of them, any make, any size should always be run up to maximum output for 5/10 minutes before switching off to burn off any residue so I think, especially as mine has 5 outlets for heating plus 3 for demisting windscreen, the bigger one is going to be better, quieter, and longer lasting than the little one if used intelligently. I didn't say the Chinese were noisier than an Eber. Frankly I don't know. I will let you know when I get it!
 
Well it's arrived! 48hr response from UK stock so impressed with that. Not so impressed that i couldn't rotate the fan by hand as it had been pressed far too far down the shaft and rammed into the bearing housing! Assuming that this was the same as an Eber which I know reasonably well I was able to free it by the judicious application of a Glaswegian screwdriver to the end of the shaft (thump wi a gert big hammer) and it now rotates freely. Looking at the kit that comes with it it is missing the tank adaptor pipe shown in the details but luckily I don't need this as I am replacing an eber not installing new. The literature that comes with it is a joke. Instructions for the set up and use of the LCD control are not decipherable and there is a glaring error in the installation of the fuel pump that is shown as horizontal in the diagram and needs to be 20% or so off vertical as we all know.
Apart from this it is clearly comparable in every way to an Eber rated at 4KW but is claimed to be 1 to 8KW which I simply don't believe. When I install it in the boat tomorrow I will measure temperature rise and flow of air across it and calculate actual KW as well as I can .
Frankly I don't expect it to reach anywhere near 8KW and will be happy if it reaches the 4KW the Eber is rated at. So initial reactions are. Quality control poor, technical literature total crap and marketing it as an 8KW heater totally dishonest. At less than £100 though it's still a total bargain if it works straight out of the box....... Will report back when I know more!
 
pcatterall said:
Assuming that the eber is a D4 then are you sure that the output is 4kw as the ones I get are always 3.6 ?
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Depends how you do the calculation. There is a very good series of videos on U tube by an Australian Guy called John. His testing of the output of various units seems entirely credible. He calculates the output by direct means (air volume and temperature rise) and indirect (fuel usage x efficiency assumption) The Eber and Chi come out the same at between 3.6 and 4.3 which is what you would expect as one is an almost exact copy of the other. Representing the Chi as 5KW is perhaps barely credible as there is the ability with them to increase the pump Hz through the control to heat up the unit to just below the temperature that would trip the overheat shut down. 8KW is total BS as the 8 is exactly the same heater. As a matter of interest I have an airflow meter and IR gun and intend doing exactly the same test as him on the boat today (assuming it all works!) I will let you know the result. The fuel conversion rate is a bit more theoretical as it requires an assumption of combustion efficiency. Interestingly the "Product Description" states "Complete Combustion Rate ; 100%" . Well that suggests the Chinese have done something never before achieved by man...... Just total barefaced BS..... At least the 3.6KW stated by Eber is honest even if their price fixing isn't!
 
Well I said I would report back...... Fooking thing was completely dead with 12v up it. No twinkle of life. Nothing on the LCD controller... Complete nada. Back in box and sent back to supplier (free e-bay return at least) Not impressed. Not sure what to do now. Try another supplier? Wait and see if this supplier reacts at all?
 
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
Bad luck, hope the replacement works OK.
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Thanks buddy! Just a thought but looking at e bay etc they appear to come in various colours. There are red ones, white ones and black ones that look like a carbon fibre material. That seems to indicate different manufacturers. This one had a grey top. I wonder if there is a particular colour or supplier that folks have had good results with?
 
By the way, a mate of mine had problems with Ebers.... thingy, changed to none red diesel and all was well - got the tip from an HGV driver! (Had of course to install a small separate diesel tank).
 
Hardly relevant at this stage but there are thousands of users that have run these things on red diesel for years with no problem. I think this is a "red" herring (sorry)
 
pcatterall said:
I've just ordered that one, I couldn't resist at that price just to see what it is like! I have tested several of these heaters and they have all been fine, however I have never been able to establish a supplier who could provide sales or spares continuity or real technical information. As a one off private purchase I would recommend that you just go for it...we can compare notes!
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Too good to be true? Scam?
As per above I ordered one through Amazon and today they say that due to various reasons they cant supply and will refund me. Is this one of those scams where they use your 'recorded purchaser details to create false reviews? Anyone else ordered one?
Just had another Chinese seller apologising for 2 day delay but sending me a 'gift' which I understand can be another 'sales confirmation scam' ??
 
pcatterall said:
Too good to be true? Scam?
As per above I ordered one through Amazon and today they say that due to various reasons they cant supply and will refund me. Is this one of those scams where they use your 'recorded purchaser details to create false reviews? Anyone else ordered one?
Just had another Chinese seller apologising for 2 day delay but sending me a 'gift' which I understand can be another 'sales confirmation scam' ??
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OOPS! It does appear that neither of us is getting very far..... I still hope that someone on here will respond with the name of a supplier that has given good service and supplied one that worked straight out of the box.....
 
If you are on facebook try Chinese vehicle diesel heaters - troubleshooting and parts

They keep up to date on who is supplying decent heaters and has stock and spares etc.....

There is always someone asking about red diesel and how its different from white diesel, so someone did a trawl of google and put up a link to this site and all the tecnical details that came up in one of the dicussion threads on here, so some of you are famous !
 
Well just to update everyone, I returned the item complete and have had a very prompt refund. The lesson seems to be always buy from a supplier that accepts free returns. Some suppliers say "free returns" but then state "buyer pays postage" That ain't free folks! This one was free however. Have ordered another one from a different supplier with no quibble free returns and UK stock so I will keep you posted on progress.... In the mean time I have stripped down the old Eberspacher. Its an Airtronic. Pretty sure its a D4 but the label has fallen off. The controller is an M3 (that's the rotary knob with thermostat but no centre position). On/off only. Have checked the control/glow plug/over temperature sensor and all appear to work fine. The fan runs OK too so I am assuming it's the dreaded ECU (number 22 5101 00 10 05) that is shot. Cant be arsed to mess around with it any more but apart from the ECU all the rest appears OK for spares so anyone interested to make me an offer send me a PM.
 
Well I promised an update. Ordered a replacement from another supplier This one cost £119 and is described as an £8KW. Total BS of course as it is exactly the same size as those sold as 5KW, but I knew that before ordering. This one is black and has a cover that is printed to look like carbon fibre (but isn't) which I found amusing but today I installed it in the boat and it worked first time I fired it up. After warming it up I checked the temperature rise on the outlet and measured the air velocity. A few basic calculations indicate it's kicking out approx 3.8 KW. Thats pretty much the output claimed for an Eber D4 so not surprising. There is a function on the control to increase both the pump rate and RPM and I suppose with both wound up to maximum it's possible that you could get 5KW I suppose but as it's giving me what the old Eber did I have not tried. Before anyone starts splitting hairs all the readings were obtained by methods that could be criticised and calculations done in accordance with my old HVAC handbook so they are approximate only. The fan is very quiet, certainly no more noisy than a D4. Pump noise is also the same as you would expect. Looking at the quality of the castings I can't fault anything. This only leaves electronics, and as this was what failed on the Eber I can't see how it could be worse. So its all good news.
Conclusions then?
As the original was faulty straight out of the box quality control must be suspect so order from a supplier with UK stock and free returns so you won't need to pay postage if you return it.
The instructions sent with both are a joke. Installation is simple though if you understand Ebers
The Marketing is total BS. No way are you going to achieve 8KW and even 5KW is pushing the limit. Claims like 100% combustion efficiency are bald face lies and the manufacturers do themselves a disservice with this kind of dishonesty.
Be careful when buying a 5KW unit as there are loads of 2KW units being sold as 5KW so don't believe the BS.
Apart from this who can complain at £120? A replacement ECU for the Eber would cost 2 1/2 to 3 times what this complete unit cost.
 
boatmike said:
Well I promised an update. Ordered a replacement from another supplier This one cost £119 and is described as an £8KW. Total BS of course as it is exactly the same size as those sold as 5KW, but I knew that before ordering. This one is black and has a cover that is printed to look like carbon fibre (but isn't) which I found amusing but today I installed it in the boat and it worked first time I fired it up. After warming it up I checked the temperature rise on the outlet and measured the air velocity. A few basic calculations indicate it's kicking out approx 3.8 KW. Thats pretty much the output claimed for an Eber D4 so not surprising. There is a function on the control to increase both the pump rate and RPM and I suppose with both wound up to maximum it's possible that you could get 5KW I suppose but as it's giving me what the old Eber did I have not tried. Before anyone starts splitting hairs all the readings were obtained by methods that could be criticised and calculations done in accordance with my old HVAC handbook so they are approximate only. The fan is very quiet, certainly no more noisy than a D4. Pump noise is also the same as you would expect. Looking at the quality of the castings I can't fault anything. This only leaves electronics, and as this was what failed on the Eber I can't see how it could be worse. So its all good news.
Conclusions then?
As the original was faulty straight out of the box quality control must be suspect so order from a supplier with UK stock and free returns so you won't need to pay postage if you return it.
The instructions sent with both are a joke. Installation is simple though if you understand Ebers
The Marketing is total BS. No way are you going to achieve 8KW and even 5KW is pushing the limit. Claims like 100% combustion efficiency are bald face lies and the manufacturers do themselves a disservice with this kind of dishonesty.
Be careful when buying a 5KW unit as there are loads of 2KW units being sold as 5KW so don't believe the BS.
Apart from this who can complain at £120? A replacement ECU for the Eber would cost 2 1/2 to 3 times what this complete unit cost.
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Got a link to the supplier ?
 
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