Eberspacher D3LC vs Chinese brand vs Planar Russian ( Latvian)

[RunAgroundHard]

Your link is rubbish. It is about carbon monoxide poisioning from a petrol generator exhaust. The guy might have been a gas fitter, but he used NO COMMON SENSE!!!! …..

This thread has observations on the heaters quality, comments on unsuitable parts that have to be substituted for better parts. Claims that YouTube videos and other OEM installation manuals can be used to instal the heaters, observations on duff YouTube videos and leaky exhausts.
Common sense is so variable that is not a reliable quality that these issues will be overcome to install an inferior product safely.

The link demonstrates the threat to users that a poor installation represents. My Mukini heater now needs replacing. Why would I buy a low cost inferior product, when I can buy a marine ready heater from a reputable, known supplier?

I don't believe lowest cost is the primary reason to buy a product, that in this case is inferior to other affordable brands.

This thread does suggest that Chinese heaters can be installed safely but also suggests that considerable caution is required because out the box, the heater kit is not fit for purpose on a boat installation.

 

[rotrax]

Go ahead then.

If you dont by a Planar you will be pissing your money away.

The other, far more reasonale position is, that you can buy a Chinese heater, lots of spares, install it with better easily available marine parts and save lots of money.

Because it is pretty much undisputed the the two major players stitched customers up for years with a reasonable product at a vastly inflated price. Please note that last bit, vastly inflated.

As you suggest, you are free to 'pay your money and make your choice'.

Go for it.

 

[rotrax]

Another eberspacher

I dont have an Erberspacher.................................................................

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Go ahead then.

If you dont by a Planar you will be pissing your money away.

The other, far more reasonale position is, that you can buy a Chinese heater, lots of spares, install it with better easily available marine parts and save lots of money.

Because it is pretty much undisputed the the two major players stitched customers up for years with a reasonable product at a vastly inflated price. Please note that last bit, vastly inflated.

As you suggest, you are free to 'pay your money and make your choice'.

Go for it.

Your endorsement of my buying strategy is not needed, but thanks. I don't think it is reasonable to purchase this style of Chinese heater for many reasons as well as quality concerns. I will be buying the Planer (Autoterm) with the additional parts for installation on the boat.

I find it odd that some folks will spend easily in excess of £100k on a boat yet buy lowest cost, shoddy kit that needs fettled to install and make fit for purpose. But if that sort of weird logic is your bag, go for it.

 

[ShinyShoe]

I find it odd that some folks will spend easily in excess of £100k on a boat yet buy lowest cost, shoddy kit that needs fettled to install and make fit for purpose. But if that sort of weird logic is your bag, go for it.

But a LOT of people don't spend £100k on a boat.

Plenty are buying boats under £20k. Plenty are using their boats May to Sep. The heating might barely be used. Why would you spend 5% of the cost of you boat to heat a boat 3 or 4 times in the year?

The OP was asking about dropping in a Chinese replacement so he can literally buy one for <£120. No idea what his boat is worth, but for MANY people that will be 1% of their boat value.

I'm not saying it's as good a product. But everything I've ever read the criticism is either on the sundries that come with it (irrelevant to the OP as it's a drop in replacement) or it's the longevity - I've never seen anything suggesting the original brand last 6 times longer...

 

[RunAgroundHard]

But a LOT of people don't spend £100k on a boat.

Plenty are buying boats under £20k. Plenty are using their boats May to Sep. The heating might barely be used. Why would you spend 5% of the cost of you boat to heat a boat 3 or 4 times in the year?

The OP was asking about dropping in a Chinese replacement so he can literally buy one for <£120. No idea what his boat is worth, but for MANY people that will be 1% of their boat value.

I'm not saying it's as good a product. But everything I've ever read the criticism is either on the sundries that come with it (irrelevant to the OP as it's a drop in replacement) or it's the longevity - I've never seen anything suggesting the original brand last 6 times longer...

Irrespective of boat cost, in my opinion, the low cost of the heater represents a quality challenge that introduces threats to the user. The Chinese price point may be achieved through very high volume production, but I don’t think that is only the reason for such low prices.

Better quality heaters that offer reliable heating are available. My Mukini has operated for around 30 years, expensive in its day, the cost long written off. I expect the Planer to do the same.

My main criticism is around the glib DIY installation comments, just use your common sense following YouTube and other OEM manuals and all will be well. I believe that increases risk to the end user significantly, compared to a marine installation kit supplied with a heater.

I am not blind to the fact that posters have installed Chinese heaters and operate them safely.

 

[PetiteFleur]

Further update - fitted proper silencer and ditched the original chinese silencer. Took a few minutes to bleed the fuel pipe, I disconnected the fuel pipe from the heater, added a temporary clear fuel line led into a container then bled it. Found it only lasted about a minute, so had to restart it twice more before fuel appeared(used the recommended priming procedure) refitted the pipe and it started straight away. Been to the boat 3 times since and it started immediately. Nice in this cold weather!

 

[[193211]]

Installation manual for Eber D2/4/5:

https://www.butlertechnik.com/downl...e_Installation_Guide_Airtronic_D2_D4_&_D5.pdf

Applicable to CDH.

 

[rotrax]

Your endorsement of my buying strategy is not needed, but thanks. I don't think it is reasonable to purchase this style of Chinese heater for many reasons as well as quality concerns. I will be buying the Planer (Autoterm) with the additional parts for installation on the boat.

I find it odd that some folks will spend easily in excess of £100k on a boat yet buy lowest cost, shoddy kit that needs fettled to install and make fit for purpose. But if that sort of weird logic is your bag, go for it.

It is quite clear the heaters you dislike so much are giving satifactory service, safely, in millions of installations world wide.

As I said earlier, just imagine how big the Chinese home market is.

I have looked quite closely at a Chinese heater, advised on its install in a self build motorhome and subsequently seen it working. For under £100. A better fuel pipe, better fuel line clips and a bit of better exhaust and clamps.

I suspect I could realise almost twice the figure you quote for boat value should I sell my boat. Should the Webasto die or become beyond economic repair I too would choose a Planar.

There are too many happy and satisfied users of the 'economy' Chinese heaters for your opinion to be fact.

Unless, like me, you have direct experience of installing, using or repairing a Chinese heater, your words remind me of the old truism "True Knowlege is the Product of Direct Experience".

 

[boatmike]

I have no knowledge of Planar.
Comparing Eberspacher with Chinaspacher is simple
The Chinkie one is an Eber copy.
The mechanical side of things is pretty similar and having stripped down both I would not say they are markedly different.
The electrical and control side of things is different. The Eber has a pretty sophisticated control system with interlocks to prevent damage. The Chinese copy is not so sophisticated and does not have the same interlocks but if you don't turn the power off before it has cooled down and are sensible using it it works fine. Frankly I have had lots of problems with Ebers and every time the failure has been uber-expensive to fix so I can't say they are exactly trouble free or cost effective. The Chinaspacher I fitted 2 years ago is still going strong and the only problem I have is the LCD control has got very dim and difficult to read. If it goes wrong I will simply replace it at less than the cost of most Eberspacher repairs!

 

[rotrax]

I have no knowledge of Planar.
Comparing Eberspacher with Chinaspacher is simple
The Chinkie one is an Eber copy.
The mechanical side of things is pretty similar and having stripped down both I would not say they are markedly different.
The electrical and control side of things is different. The Eber has a pretty sophisticated control system with interlocks to prevent damage. The Chinese copy is not so sophisticated and does not have the same interlocks but if you don't turn the power off before it has cooled down and are sensible using it it works fine. Frankly I have had lots of problems with Ebers and every time the failure has been uber-expensive to fix so I can't say they are exactly trouble free or cost effective. The Chinaspacher I fitted 2 years ago is still going strong and the only problem I have is the LCD control has got very dim and difficult to read. If it goes wrong I will simply replace it at less than the cost of most Eberspacher repairs!

And there, RunAgroundHard, you have it.

The main components pretty much the same.

Should an installer wish to improve the cheap product, or repair it, it can be done at a fraction of the cost of an Eber/Webasto.

As we have agreed, you 'Pays yer money and makes yer choice!"

 

[Nauti Fox]

As luck would have it my workshop HCalory diesel heater just stopped working, I knew the fault because this one actually talks to you, glow plug failed, new one was a whopping £16.59 including a box spanner and some spare gaskets.
Webasto Air Top EVO 5500 Parts | Pipes, Plugs & MoreWebasto price for an Airtop 5500 glow plug a snip at £171.59, now I ask you how can they justify that, and that was a reduced price.....

 

[rotrax]

As luck would have it my workshop HCalory diesel heater just stopped working, I knew the fault because this one actually talks to you, glow plug failed, new one was a whopping £16.59 including a box spanner and some spare gaskets.
Webasto Air Top EVO 5500 Parts | Pipes, Plugs & MoreWebasto price for an Airtop 5500 glow plug a snip at £171.59, now I ask you how can they justify that, and that was a reduced price.....

See post #198.

Webasto and Eberspacher have been ripping off their customers with their prices for years.

Makes Motorcycle Racing spares cheap by comparison!

 

[Aja]

I have no knowledge of Planar.
Comparing Eberspacher with Chinaspacher is simple
The Chinkie one is an Eber copy.
The mechanical side of things is pretty similar and having stripped down both I would not say they are markedly different.
The electrical and control side of things is different. The Eber has a pretty sophisticated control system with interlocks to prevent damage. The Chinese copy is not so sophisticated and does not have the same interlocks but if you don't turn the power off before it has cooled down and are sensible using it it works fine. Frankly I have had lots of problems with Ebers and every time the failure has been uber-expensive to fix so I can't say they are exactly trouble free or cost effective. The Chinaspacher I fitted 2 years ago is still going strong and the only problem I have is the LCD control has got very dim and difficult to read. If it goes wrong I will simply replace it at less than the cost of most Eberspacher repairs!

You may well be right, but I find you reference to the Chinese offensive.

 

[jon and michie]

funnily enough I posted this the other day of my Chinese heater install - never had any problems with it

diesel heater

 

[ChromeDome]

Wanted to add a recent (yesterday) experience:

For general use a mobile diesel heater was needed. I browsed the web and found the common "all-in-one tin box" units that I looked at some time ago but found too flimsy. Searched on and decided on a Kroak 5 kW with power adapter to eliminate the need of a battery and an app (nice, not need to have).



It arrived well packaged (better than the typical Chinese burners) and included a pretty good (!) instruction manual covering also the app etc.
Surprisingly it even stated contact info for questions and support (I haven't tested, but upfront better than no info at all).





The unit is well put together, I'll report back when it's been tested.
It appears to be a Hcalory product.

 

[NormanS]

Wanted to add a recent (yesterday) experience:

For general use a mobile diesel heater was needed. I browsed the web and found the common "all-in-one tin box" units that I looked at some time ago but found too flimsy. Searched on and decided on a Kroak 5 kW with power adapter to eliminate the need of a battery and an app (nice, not need to have).

View attachment 170556

It arrived well packaged (better than the typical Chinese burners) and included a pretty good (!) instruction manual covering also the app etc.
Surprisingly it even stated contact info for questions and support (I haven't tested, but upfront better than no info at all).

View attachment 170557
View attachment 170558
View attachment 170559

The unit is well put together, I'll report back when it's been tested.
It appears to be a Hcalory product.

You'll be shouted down on here, because you only paid £100 for it.

 

[ChromeDome]

You'll be shouted down on here, because you only paid £100 for it.

Oh no - it was WAY more expensive. 100% !

 

[ChromeDome]

Report:

Connected the mains power supply (there is an extra wire for battery connection with it), filled some diesel into the tank and pushed ON.

It started instantly and made warm air, but apparently found the fuel supply to be insufficient (as common at first start) and stopped.
After a few seconds started again and went on.

The panel is informative and easier than others to navigate due to the manual.

Two operation modes: Manual (9 heating levels) or automatic (set the temp and it utilizes the steps by its programming).

The mobile app had a QR to scan for installation. The link was dead but it was easy to get it from Google Play.

The app shows running state, room and set temperatures etc. much like the panel, but doesn't allow settings like time, timing and other run parameters. Setting of desired temperature, switch between run modes and ON/OFF. As it is Bluetooth the range is... not very long.

The unit inside the box is the usual type. Dosing pump fitted to the bottom and transmitting the click sound to the box. Slightly unexpected was the notable difference when fitting the silencer to the exhaust.
The usual silencer for non boaty fitting, but the first I have that worked properly (?!).

Oh, btw, the panel has a voice to tell you things. So I've heard "Heater turned ON" and "Heater turned OFF". Maybe one day it'll say something useful.

Expectations were met.

 

[rotrax]

And all fo 200 Euros!

Result.