Eberspacher D3LC vs Chinese brand vs Planar Russian ( Latvian)

[Geoff Wode]

Am I correct in thinking that taking “cold” heating air from within the same space/ locker as the heater/ exhaust isn’t a great idea?
I’ve seen plenty of installs on a certain FB page where the heated air intake is bare with no ducting and it gives me pause for thought. In the Diversion accident, the setup was similar and it basically distributed the CO from the exhaust leak around the boat.

I have 3 CO alarms on my tiny boat!

 

[Graham376]

Am I correct in thinking that taking “cold” heating air from within the same space/ locker as the heater/ exhaust isn’t a great idea?
I’ve seen plenty of installs on a certain FB page where the heated air intake is bare with no ducting and it gives me pause for thought. In the Diversion accident, the setup was similar and it basically distributed the CO from the exhaust leak around the boat.

I have 3 CO alarms on my tiny boat!

My 376 has a huge well ventilated cockpit locker. The heater is mounted low down with the combustion inlet. The lagged exhaust goes upwards and exits through the outboard side of the coaming. The air inlet has a hose which terminates just by the the instrument panel where there are ventilation holes, higher than the exhaust. No problems in the 20 years it's been mounted there. and the only times we can smell exhaust fumes are when the wind is blowing them from the outlet, into the cockpit.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Am I correct in thinking that taking “cold” heating air from within the same space/ locker as the heater/ exhaust isn’t a great idea?
I’ve seen plenty of installs on a certain FB page where the heated air intake is bare with no ducting and it gives me pause for thought. In the Diversion accident, the setup was similar and it basically distributed the CO from the exhaust leak around the boat.

I have 3 CO alarms on my tiny boat!

I think you are incorrect. Nothing wrong with a properly installed heater taking the air intake from the same space as the exhaust.

What if you take the air from somewhere else and the exhaust leaks and the fumes get in the cabin ?

What if the heater itself is installed within the accommodation area ?

I have 2 x 4kw heaters installed in my engine room, which is beneath the saloon. No matter where i take the intake air supply from, the exhausts are both beneath my saloon floor.

Answers to the above are all the same, use quality exhaust components, maintain them and fit Co alarms.

 

[LittleSister]

1) You definitely need good ventilation to wherever you take either or both the heating air inlet and the combustion air inlet.

2) If you take the heating air inlet from somewhere remote from the heater unit, the length and size of that inlet ducting needs to be added to that of the heated air outlet ducting to ensure that it remains within the limits specified by the manufacturer.

If the supply of air for heating is restricted by either restricted inlet area ventilation or excessive combined total length etc. of inlet and outlet ducting there is a risk that the heater could get excessively hot (for lack of heat being removed) and/or the heating of the accommodation will be sub-optimal.

if the supply of combustion air is restricted by e.g. inadequate inlet area ventilation then there is the risk that the heater combustion will be adversely affected, leading to any or all of sub-optimal heating; excessive coking up of the heater; and heater shutdowns.

 

[Rappey]

I read somewhere saying heating air should always be drawn from outside. Drawing it from the room to be heated increases the carbon dioxide level as no fresh air is being introduced ?

 

[bvp]

I read somewhere saying heating air should always be drawn from outside. Drawing it from the room to be heated increases the carbon dioxide level as no fresh air is being introduced ?

You always need some form of ventilation in a boat. Recirculating the warm air makes it more efficient and you can always open a hatch to let put smells or moisture which will naturally rise due to the warmth.

 

[NormanS]

Mine is installed under a settee in the deck saloon, and draws both its heating air and burning air from the saloon. The combustion air is drawn in through several sources of ventilation, and goes out as exhaust. This ensures that there is always some fresh air being drawn in, but we're not trying to warm air from outside at 0°C. The system works excellently. We do, of course, have a gas tight exhaust, and a CO alarm.

 

[Geoff Wode]

Mine is installed under a settee in the deck saloon, and draws both its heating air and burning air from the saloon. The combustion air is drawn in through several sources of ventilation, and goes out as exhaust. This ensures that there is always some fresh air being drawn in, but we're not trying to warm air from outside at 0°C. The system works excellently. We do, of course, have a gas tight exhaust, and a CO alarm.

There’s so many conflicting reports from owner’s installations that it becomes really confusing. Every boat is different and I’m sure you’ve got tons of ventilation with a DS.

From the Eber manual:

• The combustion air must not be drawn from any of
the accommodation areas.
• The combustion air inlet must be drawn from a neutral
pressure area.

 

[Northy]

Agree with all of that. The Chinese ones are so cheap though you can buy entire heaters as spares so I can live without the backup. They are dangerous if poorly installed and without instructions etc or backup that is a real risk. I’m happy with them though and have run them for years.

I’m not all together sure that they safe, I’ve seen loads on Facebook where they fumes coming out with the blown heat, I worked on night heaters for the last 25 hrs before I retired, I won’t be buying a Chinese heater ever, too many corners cut, they don’t even have a flame sensor, the build quality is less than poor, prefer the safety of a more expensive unit, I have stripped one and they are crap!

 

[Northy]

A point of importance is the arrangement of the fuel delivery system. There have been several reference to using the boat propulsion fuel tanks. There are problems with this.
The dosing pump is fussy. If the delivery line is too long, it will struggle.
If the fuel tank is low down (mine are in the keels) it will not suck adequately.
If the fuel is supplied to the dosing pump via a low pressure primary pump (as is mine), the heater can be over-dosed.
I went through several iterations of design to solve my installation (separately posted - with criticisms!).

I’ve fitted eberspacher heaters on trucks and the tanks are over a pipe run of 6m from the tank once bled correctly they are fine, I made a bleed tool from an old flasher unit one 21watt bulb ( to add load) and a pair of wires to the pump take 12 mins to bleed

 

[ChromeDome]

If you install a heater - regardless of make - according to the instructions, it works fine by my experience (lorries, trucks, trailer, cars, boats, sheds).

 

[rotrax]

I’m not all together sure that they safe, I’ve seen loads on Facebook where they fumes coming out with the blown heat, I worked on night heaters for the last 25 hrs before I retired, I won’t be buying a Chinese heater ever, too many corners cut, they don’t even have a flame sensor, the build quality is less than poor, prefer the safety of a more expensive unit, I have stripped one and they are crap!

Worked on night heaters for the last 25 hrs eh. I expect you meant 25 years.

Some CV.................................

 

[rotrax]

I’m not all together sure that they safe, I’ve seen loads on Facebook where they fumes coming out with the blown heat, I worked on night heaters for the last 25 hrs before I retired, I won’t be buying a Chinese heater ever, too many corners cut, they don’t even have a flame sensor, the build quality is less than poor, prefer the safety of a more expensive unit, I have stripped one and they are crap!

There are so many in regular use, world wide, that your fears appear unfounded as long as they are installed following best practice.

Imagine the size of the Chinese home market for these units-if you can!

It is bloody huge.

 

[ChromeDome]

A tip for the undecided, feeling that Chinese (installation) manuals are rubbish: Since you are completely right, the source of information must be the interweb.

1. Facebook groups, Youtube et al, an army of helping people who mean well but can't actually be held accountable for their advice: Read their posts - and use your common sense.
2. Professional manufacturers like Webasto and Eberspächer: Their instructions are good and can be used for China heaters, but read their advice and use your common sense.

Common denominator: Use common sense. And if, despite the good advice, you don't think you can do it safely yourself, ask a pro to supply and install your heater.

 

[rotrax]

A tip for the undecided, feeling that Chinese (installation) manuals are rubbish: Since you are completely right, the source of information must be the interweb.

1. Facebook groups, Youtube et al, an army of helping people who mean well but can't actually be held accountable for their advice: Read their posts - and use your common sense.
2. Professional manufacturers like Webasto and Eberspächer: Their instructions are good and can be used for China heaters, but read their advice and use your common sense.

Common denominator: Use common sense. And if, despite the good advice, you don't think you can do it safely yourself, ask a pro to supply and install your heater.

Well said Crome Dome, exactly right.

I was the biggest selling dealer for the Indian built Royal Enfield Motorbikes. When I first took them on they were appalling and had a terrible reliability record.

We soon found that we had to almost take them in bits and put them together properly before sale. PDI, number plate, tax disc holder, road test and adjust on a Honda perhaps an hour. A 1989 RE Bullet 350, all bloody day!

A new importer took over, quality improved-I had a little to do with that-and customers were more satisfied. It still required several hours before we could let the customer have his bike.

It will be the same with these Chinese diesel blown air heaters. A product built to a price and supplied with inferior quality accessories which need, as Chrome Dome says, common sense to install safely.

Like the Indian built motorbikes, great value for money but required input to make them good.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

… Common denominator: Use common sense. And if, despite the good advice, you don't think you can do it safely yourself, ask a pro to supply and install your heater.

… It will be the same with these Chinese diesel blown air heaters. A product built to a price and supplied with inferior quality accessories which need, as Chrome Dome says, common sense to install safely. …

What do you even mean by “common sense”? A competent person who did not apply common sense with tragic results:-

https://www.itv.com/news/border/upd...aths-gas-fitter-found-guilty-of-manslaughter/

Aye, apply common sense and fit shoddily manufactured heaters.

 

[Geoff Wode]

What do you even mean by “common sense”? A competent person who did not apply common sense with tragic results:-

https://www.itv.com/news/border/upd...aths-gas-fitter-found-guilty-of-manslaughter/

Aye, apply common sense and fit shoddily manufactured heaters.

The MAIB report for proper context: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/56a20e2040f0b667ce00002b/MAIBInvReport_2_2015.pdf

Incredibly sad.

 

[rotrax]

What do you even mean by “common sense”? A competent person who did not apply common sense with tragic results:-

https://www.itv.com/news/border/upd...aths-gas-fitter-found-guilty-of-manslaughter/

Aye, apply common sense and fit shoddily manufactured heaters.

Your link is rubbish. It is about carbon monoxide poisioning from a petrol generator exhaust. The guy might have been a gas fitter, but he used NO COMMON SENSE!!!! It also appears the generator was run to keep an electric heater going while the occupants were sleeping. A receipe fo disaster!

The Chinese heaters I have examined are not shoddily made. The wiring, exhaust and silencer supplied are perhaps suitable for vehicle use, but not marine use.

Opinion on this forum overwhelmingly suggests purchasers are happy with the product.

Webasto and Erbspacher have, like Calor, been taking the piss with pricing for years.

Our boat has a big Webasto. All outlet runs insulated. It was fitted when the boat was new, launched 2008. So far it has worked faultlessly.

Should it die, guess what I shall replace it with?

 

[Nauti Fox]

, they don’t even have a flame sensor,

Sorry for continuing this thread but I dislike misinformation, they do.

 

[gaylord694]

Your link is rubbish. It is about carbon monoxide poisioning from a petrol generator exhaust. The guy might have been a gas fitter, but he used NO COMMON SENSE!!!! It also appears the generator was run to keep an electric heater going while the occupants were sleeping. A receipe fo disaster!

The Chinese heaters I have examined are not shoddily made. The wiring, exhaust and silencer supplied are perhaps suitable for vehicle use, but not marine use.

Opinion on this forum overwhelmingly suggests purchasers are happy with the product.

Webasto and Erbspacher have, like Calor, been taking the piss with pricing for years.

Our boat has a big Webasto. All outlet runs insulated. It was fitted when the boat was new, launched 2008. So far it has worked faultlessly.

Should it die, guess what I shall replace it with?

Another eberspacher