Eber struggles to start - could this be the problem?

It's still trying to start and ends up giving up and giving error 52. Wouldn't a lock out stop it from attempting to start altogether?

I've been watching what's going on with the fuel and each time it fails to start the fuel drops back down the pipe. When the pump starts going on the next attempt it takes a little while before the fuel reaches the pump and beyond. Could this be the problem? And if so, how do I fix it? :confused:
 
Cardo said:
It's still trying to start and ends up giving up and giving error 52. Wouldn't a lock out stop it from attempting to start altogether?

I've been watching what's going on with the fuel and each time it fails to start the fuel drops back down the pipe. When the pump starts going on the next attempt it takes a little while before the fuel reaches the pump and beyond. Could this be the problem? And if so, how do I fix it? :confused:
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IIRC you ahve 5 attempts and at starting the unit and then the ECU kicks in and locks you out.
When this happens, I believe the ECU needs to be reset by an approved Eberspacher service agent.
 
Thepipdoc said:
IIRC you ahve 5 attempts and at starting the unit and then the ECU kicks in and locks you out.
When this happens, I believe the ECU needs to be reset by an approved Eberspacher service agent.
Click to expand...

This from an e-mail reply from Eberspacher some years ago...
Only the Eberspacher D1LC and some early D1LC " Compact" heaters produced between 1990-1998 have the "lock out" in the event of 5 unsuccessful physical start attempts (each attempt means two automatic starts to give the 10 starts before "lock out"). Should the heater start during these attempts then it cancels all previous non start fault codes.
Five new attempts are now available the next time the heater is operated.
However should the D1LC heater "lock out" after these five unsuccessful physical start attempts then you can unlock the control unit manually but this will only allow one more physical attempt at starting the heater. Should it then fail again, we recommend that you seek the services of the recognised Eberspacher dealer.

A visual indication is available to show the non start "lock out" or when an operational malfunction has occurred. This is by means of a flashing diagnostic code signal which is sent from the control unit. This signal is shown on the operating switch "LED" and consists of a series of flashes with varying lengths over a period of 8 seconds. The flash code signal is repeated until the heater is switched off with the operating switch.
The diagnostic flash code signals and one manual unlock attempt are obtained by switching on the heater and bridging between pin 4 and pin 6 on the operating switch. (round rheostat switch or square modulator)) or between Pin B9 and B11 on the electronic control unit. Remove the bridge after 2 seconds. Wait a few seconds until the error code is shown on the LED in the operating switch.
The flash code signal is deleted when the heater is switched off. It is therefore important to carefully check and note the flashing code signal that is shown before contacting an Eberspacher dealer to verify the diagnostic codes. Heaters after 1998 production and also the new Airtronic 2/4 do not have this "lock out" system.
 
I am wondering if the low level of diesel in the tank plus using the main (8mm?) fuel take off is causing fuel starvation.

The Eber pump can generate a given suction pressure in the 2mm Eber fuel pipe. However, pressure = force/area and when the pump pressure is applied to the 8mm fuel take off, the available 'force' to suck up fuel is significantly reduced (by 16 times?). It's a bit like trying to set up a syphon with a pipe that is too big - it just doesn't get going.

When the diesel tank is full, the 'force' is obviously sufficient but maybe not when there is a significant lift required?
 
alahol2 said:
This from an e-mail reply from Eberspacher some years ago...
Click to expand...
Ours is a D2, I don't think it has a lock out. I've found another error code - 50, which is similar to the 52 I'm getting but also denotes the unit is locked out.

Playtime said:
I am wondering if the low level of diesel in the tank plus using the main (8mm?) fuel take off is causing fuel starvation.

The Eber pump can generate a given suction pressure in the 2mm Eber fuel pipe. However, pressure = force/area and when the pump pressure is applied to the 8mm fuel take off, the available 'force' to suck up fuel is significantly reduced (by 16 times?). It's a bit like trying to set up a syphon with a pipe that is too big - it just doesn't get going.

When the diesel tank is full, the 'force' is obviously sufficient but maybe not when there is a significant lift required?
Click to expand...

I'm thinking this may be the case. The pipe to the Eber from the CAV filter is 2mm however I guess the pump is having to suck all the way through from the tank and it's just a bit too much for it. Whilst it is managing to pull fuel up the pipe, it's simply not quick enough.

Time to fill up the tank!
 
Playtime said:
I am wondering if the low level of diesel in the tank plus using the main (8mm?) fuel take off is causing fuel starvation.

The Eber pump can generate a given suction pressure in the 2mm Eber fuel pipe. However, pressure = force/area and when the pump pressure is applied to the 8mm fuel take off, the available 'force' to suck up fuel is significantly reduced (by 16 times?). It's a bit like trying to set up a syphon with a pipe that is too big - it just doesn't get going.

When the diesel tank is full, the 'force' is obviously sufficient but maybe not when there is a significant lift required?
Click to expand...
These Eberspacher problems are fascinating aren't they (and numerous). Playtime, i think you are confusing pressure with volume. The Eber pump is a positive displacement device and will only suck up a constant volume per stroke/click. If you're using 8mm pipe instead of the recommended 2mm, the number of strokes per start attempt is insufficient to draw fuel up the pipe to the heater. In theory, the level should stay where it is after each start attempt but, in practice there may be a small air leak into the pipework which will allow the fuel level to fall back to the level in the tank so that, on the next attempt you are again having to prime the suction pipe. I should start by checking all the joints to ensure there is no possibility of an air leak into the supply pipe. Failing that I would reduce the bore of the pipe to the recommended 2mm proposed by David. There would then be a better chance of drawing sufficient fuel up within the start cycle of the heater. Arcticpilot, if you have to prime your heater pump regularly, you have the same problem - air leaks.
 
ghostlymoron said:
Arcticpilot, if you have to prime your heater pump regularly, you have the same problem - air leaks.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but it's over 2 years since the last time, and then it was associated with other fuel problems. Provided the fuel tank is kept above the level of the stand-pipe for the heater, it's OK - but of course, the heater's stand-pipe is shorter than the main engine stand-pipe, so I can't run myself out of diesel using the heater.

PS, It's the southern hemisphere, not the northern :) But I do have Arctic experience as well, so I'll forgive you ;)
 
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ghostlymoron said:
Playtime, If you're using 8mm pipe instead of the recommended 2mm, the number of strokes per start attempt is insufficient to draw fuel up the pipe to the heater.
Click to expand...

Not me, guv. I was attempting to solve the OPs problem.

Also, if you read the thread carefully you will see that the OP is using 2mm pipe from the CAV filter to the pump but 8mm (or whatever is the 'normal' size fuel pick up) to the CAV from the tank. Hence my thought that the pump may not have enough 'suck' to draw fuel up the 8mm pipe from the tank.
 
Playtime said:
Not me, guv. I was attempting to solve the OPs problem.

Also, if you read the thread carefully you will see that the OP is using 2mm pipe from the CAV filter to the pump but 8mm (or whatever is the 'normal' size fuel pick up) to the CAV from the tank. Hence my thought that the pump may not have enough 'suck' to draw fuel up the 8mm pipe from the tank.
Click to expand...

If that is the problem, it should be OK with the engine running, doing the initial suck. Does it do that Cardo?
 
Stork_III said:
If that is the problem, it should be OK with the engine running, doing the initial suck. Does it do that Cardo?
Click to expand...

Don't think so Pete, that would cause a depression in the filter body and be more likely to exacerbate the situation, even causing it by drawing fuel out of the Eber supply pipe, might work if the engine is run and then stopped though.
 
Cardo said:
Do you know what caused it?

I'm fairly confident mine's not locked, it's just struggling to start.
Click to expand...

As far as I know, fuel starvation. Certainly it worked fine once the fuel issues were sorted out, but the initial fix did take an engineer on the scene. I now know not to keep on trying if it fails to start a couple of times, but to fix the problem.

By the way, I don't have a controller with a read-out, so we probably have slightly different models. Mine just has a rocker switch and a rotary heat control, with an LED on/off indicator.
 
That really depends on whether it's a true lock out, i.e. Permenant Lock, many can be cleared by pulling the fuse or through the timers, others can only be done with Edith or Thermotest.
 
I would suggest you bite the bullet and install the Eber recommended standpipe directly into the tank. It will be worth the effort in the long run.

I have installed 2 Ebers this way. The first worked without a single failure in 13 years (before I sold the boat) and the second (recently fitted) worked first time (after initial priming) and continues to work with any problems.
 
alahol2 said:
OR, you've still got a voltage problem.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the result is highly indicative but not conclusive. I do think that if the fuel is so low that even a proper install would maybe not working now either as the standpipe is installed a couple of inches above the top of the tank to protect the engine supply as well as prevent **** being drawn and blocking the small bore.
 
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